What happens when years of overwhelm, self-doubt, and burnout finally start to make sense? For many women, ADHD goes undiagnosed for decades, leaving them navigating impossible expectations and blaming themselves for struggles they never understood. In this episode, Liz Lewis explores how a late diagnosis can change how you see your past, your relationships, and yourself, while reminding us that ADHD is only one part of the story. Take this conversation as an opportunity to slow down, question old narratives, and create a version of success that actually fits your life.

What to expect in this episode:

• The reality of growing up with ADHD before we understood how it shows up in girls and women
• Why many women discover ADHD through parenting, burnout, or major life transitions
• The hidden ways unrealistic expectations and gender roles amplify ADHD overwhelm
• What happens when an ADHD diagnosis becomes self-understanding instead of self-definition
• Why hitting pause after diagnosis can stop you from turning self-discovery into self-destruction

Late Diagnosed ADHD in Women: When Life Finally Makes Sense with Liz Lewis

About Liz Lewis

Liz Lewis is a writer, coach, researcher, and self-described chronic overthinker who helps ADHD women navigate motherhood, mental health, and midlife burnout with more clarity and self-compassion. Through her work at HealthyADHD LLC, as well as through coaching, speaking, and her Substack, Liz offers practical, relatable support grounded in lived experience and research. She has facilitated peer support groups for ADDA, spoken at national conferences, and written for publications including HuffPost, Attention Magazine, and ADDitude Magazine. Her first book, You Are Not the Problem, is a gentle guide for late-diagnosed ADHD women that blends personal stories, science, and midlife humor. When she’s not overthinking life and writing about it, she enjoys reading, volunteering, and spending time with her husband, son, and their very opinionated dog.

Connect with Liz

• Website: Liz Lewis | Healthy ADHD | 
• Substack: Liz Lewis 
• Instagram: @lizlewisliterary

Celebrate the launch of Liz Lewis’ new book, You Are Not the Problem: Late Diagnosed Women and the Invisible Forces That Shape Us! Grab your copy and use code NotTheProb20 to get 20% OFF. Don’t miss this empowering read for late-diagnosed women navigating identity, ADHD, and the invisible forces shaping their lives.

Our Discussion

Liz Lewis
So, I’m always afraid to reveal this to people. I was actually diagnosed with ADHD in 1991, and I got diagnosed because my brother got diagnosed, of course. So I’m not late diagnosed, and I’m always afraid to tell people that because the book ended up being about late-in-life diagnosis. But I was diagnosed first in the ’90s.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Were you treated when you were diagnosed?

Liz Lewis
Yes. Yes and no. Ish. Yeah, ish is a good way to describe it. Because of my chaotic family situation, my little brother, and my mother’s set of issues, I think the emphasis was much more on managing me because I was a good student, and I didn’t get in trouble or anything like that. I was just diagnosed because my brother was diagnosed, and I was along for the ride. I saw a therapist intermittently. We saw a family therapist because my stepfather had died. So yes, I was treated, but it was always framed to me as, “This is a thing that you have to manage on your own, and you take the medicine, and you’re a good girl, and you don’t question anything. Just do your thing and don’t ask for help.” So I went through pretty much college that way. People always ask me how I graduated from college in the late ’90s without any accommodations or anything, and I’m always like, “Well, I had meds, and I was in a sorority.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Which is more than most people had, right?

Liz Lewis
Yes. I’m assuming there was academic support on campus, but I never would’ve considered doing that. It just never entered my mind. But I also was in a sorority, and this is gonna sound wild, but I write about this in the book as well. The reason I kept my grades and my GPA at a decent level was because I wanted to party, and you weren’t allowed to party if your GPA wasn’t where it was supposed to be. So you couldn’t go to a party.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
You had a motivation.

Liz Lewis
I did. I did.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah. Well, I think this is actually… I love that you’re sharing that you were diagnosed but not what I would call fully treated until much later. I think this is a really common story for a lot of adults in the modern age. They were diagnosed as kids, and then that was it. And then you come back as an adult. When you hear somebody say, “Well, I had it as a kid,” it’s because in those days, they actually believed that people grew out of it.

Liz Lewis
Yes, and when I graduated from college, I remember having a conversation with my family doctor, the guy who I’d seen since I was a little kid. He and I talked about it, and he was like, “Well, did you interview and get your first job? Oh, okay. It’s over. It’s over. We don’t ever need to talk about this again.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Do you know what’s funny? I don’t wanna throw them under the bus, so I won’t say what specialty, but I was listening to some doctors do a webinar in a medical arena, and they’re ADHD specialists. When somebody asked about behavioral support, their answer was, “Well, I figure by the time adults become adults, they’ve kinda figured out how to manage themselves.” And so there’s this story that either you figure out how to accommodate for yourself or you don’t.

Liz Lewis
Yeah. I mean, I guess that’s true in the case of women. A lot of us have a lot of strategies. And we can make it a long time, especially a woman who’s really motivated to make it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
We’re supposed to be good girls, right? We’re supposed to be helpful. We’re conditioned to navigate the world and make it better for other people.

Liz Lewis
Yeah, and I was raised in the ’90s. I don’t know if it was just my parents, but my parents were people with degrees and education, and they were just like, “Once you move out, you better move out. Don’t ask for help with anything.” So I always felt this pressure to, “Oh my God, I gotta pay my own bills. I gotta find a way through.” I would’ve never just let myself burn out. Yet it happened later, but in my 20s, no.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So how did you find yourself back into the ADHD space as an adult?

Liz Lewis
It was mostly after my son was born, and he had a lot of what I called sensory issues at the time. I had my suspicions, but we now know he’s autistic and ADHD. He’s AuDHD, as they say. He didn’t do well in childcare, so I ended up, without realizing it, as a stay-at-home mom. It happened very rapidly. In a six-month period of time, I went from thinking I had a career to being a stay-at-home mom. I was pretty miserable. I tried to be a housewife and a stay-at-home mom. I tried to hang out at the gym with all the wives and the ladies in my neighborhood who had multiple kids, and I was hair on fire. My baby never slept. He screamed all the time. I was around all these women who were working out every day and going for coffee, and I was like, “What is happening?” I found myself really miserable because I didn’t like being a housewife. So I started researching on my own because one really bad afternoon, this thing popped into my head about ADHD. Well, actually ADD, because that’s what they called it in the ’90s. I remember sitting there while my baby was a mess, grabbing my laptop and thinking, “That’s a thing. I think that still exists.” I just started looking. I ordered a whole bunch of books. I remember ordering Russell Barkley’s book and a bunch of others. I started filling notebooks with information. Sari Solden’s stuff, Terry Matlen’s stuff. I found Linda Roggli on the internet. She was one of the first people I found online. I just started reading.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
One of the first people online, yeah.

Liz Lewis
Yeah, and I just started filling notebooks. That’s how I got into ADHD again. I ended up having to go and have myself re-evaluated and sit on a waiting list for an adult psychiatrist for a long time. Luckily, I live in the same town where I grew up. I didn’t live here forever, but I came back. They were able to find my records because the guy who diagnosed me in 1991 now runs the program. So when I went back in and said, “No, I’m legit. There should be a record of this. I think I have ADHD,” they were able to find everything. I didn’t get dragged through a huge process, but there was a little bit of a process. I got re-diagnosed when I was about 33.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Wow. So when you were re-diagnosed, what was the thought or feeling around it? What came up for you?

Liz Lewis
Well, I knew what it was. I had already educated myself as much as I could in 2013 or 2014. I had read a lot already, so I knew. Once he confirmed it and said, “Yep, you still got it,” he laughed and said, “You know, now we know that it doesn’t disappear.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Now we know, right?

Liz Lewis
And I was like, “Well, I wish somebody would’ve mentioned that to me.” I had spent about 13 years suffering, thinking I couldn’t figure out why my friends seemed to be getting ahead in life faster than I was, or why I didn’t like being a mom, or why I didn’t adjust to it the way I thought I should have. Now I know. I had a lot of feelings about it, but I also felt really validated. I knew. I knew this was what it was.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So you get re-diagnosed, you’re a young mom, you’re now a stay-at-home mom, you’ve got notebooks full of information, you’ve started doing all the reading. At some point, you started taking it and turning it into your work. What was that shift for you?

Liz Lewis
Well, first I started a Facebook group, and then I decided I wanted a website, but I didn’t want it to look too cheesy. So I bought a domain name, and I originally called it A Dose of Healthy Distraction, ADHD.

Liz Lewis
And I wrote a whole variety of articles—everything from parenting stuff to home organization. It was really me trying things and writing about them. At one point, I had a Facebook group with maybe a couple thousand people in it. I didn’t know anything about the ADHD space, though. I joined CHADD and ADDA, but I didn’t really know anything about conferences or things like that. So I just wrote on this—what I call now—silly website, and I kept writing. Over time, I had a little fan club, and I just kept upgrading my writing. I started reading the emails from CHADD and that kind of stuff. Then one year, I showed up at a conference all by myself.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah.

Liz Lewis
And I just kept writing on this blog. This was back when Terry Matlen, Sari Solden, and Michelle Frank were really active. You were around, too. I know your website was.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yes, I remember Terry taking you around the conference and introducing you to people.

Liz Lewis
Yeah. Terry Matlen is one of the funniest people. That’s a funny story because I had reviewed one of her books, and she recognized me. I almost peed myself when I went to a conference. Then she just befriended me and was like, “This is my friend Sari Solden.” I was completely starstruck. It was wild.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So, for those of you listening, Terry Matlen and Sari Solden are two of the OGs in the ADHD space for women. Sari Solden wrote the first book in the ’90s identifying that, yes, women had ADHD, and Terry had one of the very first really big women’s communities and Facebook groups. We’re talking about the women whose shoulders I was standing on.

Liz Lewis
And I always talk about them because I feel like not as many people do anymore, and I like to talk about the people who laid the path for us to be here.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah. They were extraordinary. In fact, I remember going to a workshop of Terry’s at the very first ADHD conference I attended, before Diane and I started Impact Parents.

Liz Lewis
That’s how I got here.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
My guest is Liz Lewis, and we’re really talking about women, diagnosis, and the process of diagnosis for adults with ADHD. What I wanna bring us to now is this: you’re a mom, you’re writing, you’re coming to conferences and meeting the community. Fast-forward a little bit because you’ve been involved in this community for a long time. You’re known as a writer in the community. What was important to you about writing this book? Because here’s what I’ll tell you all—I have read the book, and it’s available, and we’ll give you a discount code and all that in a little bit. What’s beautiful about this book is that it’s thorough, incredibly well-researched, and it blends lived experience with the academic side of things. There’s all this research and evidence, and then there’s, “This is what it feels like in real life.” As you read it, it feels real and human. It doesn’t feel sterile in any way, and yet it’s still incredibly well-researched. So what was important about writing this book?

Liz Lewis
Well, first of all, I always confess this. I didn’t come to publishing the traditional way. I always loved to write and, in my wildest dreams, wanted to write something. But when they approached me—and I know that’s not the traditional route. Most people query agents and submit proposals. I was actually approached by a publisher. So that’s not the norm, and I was unagented. I don’t want anyone to think that’s how things usually go.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Can I just tell you that’s how we wrote Parenting ADHD Now?

Liz Lewis
Yeah?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah.

Liz Lewis
Good. So it’s not just me who went in blind. I was like, “Oh, I’ll write something for you, sure.” I have lots to say about writing and publishing in general, but that’s not the point here. They actually approached me because they had been all through my website and had joined my email list. I just didn’t realize it. They had been watching everything I wrote about parenting and the transition into motherhood and what that feels like for somebody with ADHD. They originally asked me to write about motherhood and ADHD. That was the original proposal and the writing sample I gave them. Then they came back after reading it, and it’s funny you describe it the way you do because that’s exactly what they liked. They said, “Oh, you actually do research, but then you weave storytelling and lived experience into it.”

Liz Lewis
And I was like, “Yeah, that’s how I write everything I do.” So then they said, “Well, could you write a bigger book?” And I was like, “You’re gonna have to be more specific. I have ADHD.” We sat down and talked about it, and I signed a contract. Long story short, by the time I turned in the manuscript two years later, the world had changed a lot. The pandemic happened in 2020, and by the time I turned in the manuscript, it was 2024. Social media, YouTube, TikTok, and all that stuff had really come into play. We sort of agreed that the big book we had envisioned needed to be more specific. It needed to be narrower. That was when I randomly said in a meeting, “Wait a minute. Why don’t we write something for women diagnosed late?” There were so many women online who were overwhelmed with everything coming at them. I said, “Maybe we should write a book about that and center it on these women, because right now we’ve got this giant 300-page book, and we want it to be smaller.” These women were underserved but overwhelmed with information. So that’s why.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
What’s most important for women who are late diagnosed? Where do they start? What’s the most important thing for this group of women to understand? There are a lot of people listening who, like you and like me, are diagnosed—or suspect they have ADHD—because their kids do. Actually, before I ask that question, let me go back and ask: What’s important about a diagnosis?

Liz Lewis
Well, this is never a satisfying answer, but I always say, “Do you need one?” When people ask about getting a diagnosis, I’m like, “Well, do you think you need one? I don’t know. It depends.” That’s always an unsatisfying answer because I’ve seen it go a couple of different ways. If you want the diagnosis because you need access to support for yourself, your child, at work, or in your personal life, or because you want to be able to talk about it with the people around you, that’s fine. If that’s your goal, I’d jump through the hoops and do it. But if you’ve wrapped your entire identity around things you’ve been watching on social media, and getting the diagnosis has more to do with validating that identity, I don’t know. If you’re really emotionally wrapped up in it, and it’s more about how it would make you feel, or because you admire some of the people you see online, I’d hesitate. It’s a hard question to answer, but it’s really interesting.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Because you can imagine I’ve gotten this question a lot over the years. What I used to say—and I hadn’t thought about how different it is now in the world of TikTok diagnoses, which is what you’re dancing around—is that it depends on what you’re going to do with the information.

Liz Lewis
Well, yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And if you know you want to try medication, if you want treatment, if you’re going to do something with the diagnosis other than continue reading and learning about it, then by all means, a diagnosis can be really powerful. I believe a diagnosis can be a boon, not a bust. Once you have a diagnosis, it’s like, “OK, now we know what we’re dealing with. Let’s get to work.”

Liz Lewis
Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And I love what you’re saying, which is that you don’t want to do it because it’s the trendy thing or because everybody else is doing it.

Liz Lewis
I have a lot of concerns about ADHD becoming not just an identity marker, but almost something people prefer over looking at the full picture. It’s really easy to enter the ADHD world and start focusing your entire life around ADHD, building your life around it, talking about it everywhere, and shouting it from the rooftops. I’ve done that too. But it’s also really easy, once you get into that mindset, to stop noticing the other context of your life. ADHD doesn’t travel alone. The idea that you can focus only on ADHD, play Whac-A-Mole with the symptoms, and then post about it on social media—I think that’s a slippery slope. If you start ignoring the other things that come along with it—we always joke that anxiety and ADHD are like peanut butter and jelly—you miss a lot. ADHD can very quickly become its own animal. I always compare it to those Grow Animals kids used to get where you put them in water and they suddenly become a thousand times bigger.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah.

Liz Lewis
That’s what ADHD can do sometimes when it becomes the center of your life.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
If you don’t have a good, clear context around it, is what I think I hear you saying.

Liz Lewis
Yes. Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So when people read your new book, what do you hope they take away from it?

Liz Lewis
That ADHD is, by all accounts, a challenge. There are times in your life when it’s gonna be really rough, and there are gonna be times when you’re like, “You know what? I think I got this handled. I think I’m doing really well.” And that is normal. But you don’t have to make it the center of your life 24/7. You’re still you. All of your gifts and talents are still yours. You just have ADHD too. And if your ADHD is under control, that doesn’t mean you’re not part of our community anymore. You don’t have to be more ADHD than you are just to belong. I’ve had people accuse me of not having ADHD.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
That’s so fascinating to hear you call that out. I had been doing this work for more than a dozen years when I realized that ADHD manifests differently for everybody. For me, it’s mostly working memory and a few other things, but I’m pretty well organized. I get my stuff done. I’m pretty successful in a lot of ways. To such an extent that I was doubting my own diagnosis. I actually went back and found the paperwork to prove to myself that, oh yeah, I do have learning and attention issues. That’s real. I think it’s so easy to fall into this place of doubt because there’s so much stigma around it. I had to remind myself what I was dealing with so I could ground myself again and justify the medication I was taking and all that good stuff. I think we play a lot of head games with ourselves.

Liz Lewis
We do. And we forget that part of the premise of this book is that ADHD itself is difficult and presents a lot of challenges. But these days, in 2026, we know more about ADHD than ever before. I’m not saying we’ve had adequate research on women and hormones over the lifespan and all those things, but we’re getting better and learning more all the time. The real issue, as I see it, is that the same things that are hard for us are hard for all women. It’s really the systems and structures that put unfair pressure on women and girls. Those pressures aren’t gonna disappear just because we talk about ADHD more or diagnose it more. If we really want to help women with ADHD, we have to look at these larger systemic issues. Then ADHD becomes something we can help each other with. I believe in community care over individualized solutions. That’s really the premise of the book. ADHD is hard. Here’s what we know about it. Here’s some compassion. Here’s some stories so you know you’re not alone and we’re all in this together. But what we really need to be talking about are all the expectations placed on women that are unfair in the first place and make ADHD feel untenable for so many of us.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And I think, to your point, that’s true for women specifically, but it’s also true for all people with ADHD. The neuronormative expectations of the world we live in. One of the things we talk about in Sanity School is setting expectations. There’s an entire module on it because we have to be intentional about the expectations we’re setting based on who we are and how we’re wired, instead of because that’s what my neighbor does or my sister-in-law does.

Liz Lewis
I’m getting more and more grouchy as I age, and I see so many things online about ADHD. Some of them are marketed to women specifically, like, “Here’s a program to do this thing better.” And I’m like, “But you’re just encouraging them to try to meet expectations that are already unreasonable anyway. Now you’re marketing it to a person with ADHD and claiming your system is gonna solve it.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And I’m like, “No, this is part of the problem.” A big part of the problem is that message we see online: “I have ADHD, and this worked for me, so it’ll work for you.” That’s crazy-making.

Liz Lewis
It is crazy-making. But business-wise, that seems to be what people want to see. They want reassurance. They want somebody to say, “Oh, I found the answer. Just do what I did.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
I think people just want an easy fix.

Liz Lewis
Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And it’s not something that you fix.

Liz Lewis
Well, I wrote a post one time and got heavily criticized for it about how these band-aid solutions to ADHD are not a good idea, and everybody was like, “Don’t be such a downer.” I was like, “You can’t band-aid this.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
No. You really can’t band-aid this. You have to learn to manage it, and then you get to do it again and again and again when life changes and the kids grow up or this happens or that happens. It’s about… And that’s what I think I love most about your book. It’s about learning to understand ourselves well enough to understand where our gifts are and where our challenges are so that we can consciously manage ourselves. It sounds like it’s not simple, but it’s kinda that simple, right?

Liz Lewis
It’s simple, but not easy. I feel like I have that written somewhere. I don’t even know what section of the book, but I feel like I wrote that somewhere. It’s simple, but not easy. I think our brains are wired for comparison, and we look around and think, well, if this person… You know, I’ve met so many women, more than I wish I had, in the last couple of years who find out they have ADHD in their 40s or 50s and want to burn down their whole life. They want to change careers, separate from their partner, change everything in the face of this diagnosis, and I’m just like—

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Oof. It’s always been there, right?

Liz Lewis
So when somebody tells me that, I’m always like, “Oof, okay.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Slow it down.

Liz Lewis
Yeah. Slow it down.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah.

Liz Lewis
That’s the message. Slow it down. Hold on loosely. I think that’s the last section of the book: hold on loosely.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah. I’m all about hold it lightly. I’m with you. All right, we could talk forever, but we need to start wrapping up this conversation because, shocker, we’re a little over time. But that’s who we are. Let me give you guys a little information about how you can find out more about Liz and the book. By the time you’re hearing this, the book will have come out in the summer of 2026. Again, the book is You Are Not the Problem: Late-Diagnosed Women and the Invisible Forces That Shape Us. We think you can get 20% off with the promo code NOTTHEPROB20. We’ll have it in the show notes. If it works, that’s great. Get 20% off. You can also find out more at lizlewisauthor.com and healthyadhdsubstack.com.

Before we wrap, is there anything else we haven’t talked about that you want to make sure you share with our listeners?

Liz Lewis
I should be better prepared for this. Well, I think mostly what we were saying here. ADHD is important, and I don’t think it should go unacknowledged at all. But also, you do not have to make it the center of your life all the time. You are not required to manage it, fix it, all the time, every day, 24/7. Take your time integrating it into your life.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah. I like to say slow down to speed up.

Liz Lewis
Yeah, definitely.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Right? You’ll get there. It’s not going anywhere.

Liz Lewis
No.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
No. Right? It’s just not. And what jumps at me as I’m hearing you say that is that we want to understand it’s an explanation for what we struggle with, but not an excuse to not take ownership of ourselves.

Liz Lewis
Yeah. And you can still be you. You don’t have to change everything in the face of the diagnosis. You still have all of your gifts and talents. You’re still you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah. You’re still wonderful. So before we wrap, do you have a favorite quote or motto you want to share with our community? This is putting an ADHD person on the spot with working memory issues.

Liz Lewis
I always say this wrong. What is it? Strong convictions held loosely, or strong opinions held loosely. I feel like that’s it. I have two big things I always tell people: have strong opinions, but hold them loosely, and underpromise and overdeliver. Every session I’ve ever done at the ADHD conference, I pull that in somehow. Underpromise and overdeliver. That’s how I set boundaries in my life and my work.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
It’s a way of setting expectations. 

Liz Lewis
Yeah. It’s completely unrelated to what we’re talking about, but those are two things that I say on repeat all the time. I love that. I love it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Liz, thanks for coming in and hanging out with me.

Liz Lewis
Well, thanks for having me. It’s always fun to see you. I only see you once a year in person.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
That’s true, so we’ve doubled that this year.

Liz Lewis
Yes, we have.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Indeed. Thank you. I appreciate it, and I’m really, really excited that you wrote this book. Thank you for asking me to review it because it was really exceptional. As you saw in my process, I take reviews seriously because there’s a lot of stuff out there that honestly isn’t always that good.

Liz Lewis
Yeah. And I try to write about ADHD from a different angle. I try to do it in a different voice and a different way than what you usually see out there. I work hard to make both the substance and the book itself different.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
It’s funny. Somebody wrote to me yesterday and said, “I’m listening to your book, and it feels like I’m sitting and talking to you. I cannot believe how strong your author’s voice comes through.” It was about The Essential Guide. That’s how I feel about your book.

Liz Lewis
Well, I’m glad.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Except for some of the research sections. But overall, the book reads like a conversation. It’s comfortable, approachable, and easy to read. That’s a lovely gift.

Liz Lewis
And it’s a gift that you said that. Thank you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
My pleasure. All right, my friend, thank you for being here. To those of you listening, take a minute and check in with yourself. What are you taking away from this conversation? Maybe you’re an adult with ADHD giving yourself permission to be you. Maybe you’re wondering whether you want to pursue an evaluation. What stood out to you? What insight are you taking forward into your life? Thanks for what you’re doing for yourself and for your kids. It makes an extraordinary difference when you slow down and pay attention to how you’re showing up in your life and your world.

Next up on the podcast, we’ll be talking with Jenny Drennan, a fabulous provider on the West Coast, a longtime participant in our professional trainings, and a good friend. She’s also an educational therapist. And last but not least, if you like what you’re hearing on this podcast, please take a moment to like, follow, subscribe, or leave a review. Whatever action you take helps us reach the people who need these conversations most. On that note, thanks again for being here and for doing what you’re doing. Thanks, Liz, for joining us, and we’ll catch you on the next one. Take care, everybody.