Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody, to another conversation on the Parenting with Impact podcast. My guest today is Dani Donovan. Many of you know her as a visual ADHD creator in the ADHD space. Chances are, if you've seen an infographic about ADHD in the past few years, you've seen something Dani created. So, Dani, it’s great to have you here. Welcome.

Dani Donovan: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Me too. So, we were chatting a little beforehand about what you wanted to talk about, because we always like to give our guests the chance to set the stage for what’s important to them. We always start with this question: Dani, how did you get into this work? You don’t work specifically with kids; your focus is on ADHD education, using creativity and art. How did this all come about for you?

Dani Donovan: I’ll try to give you the shortest version!

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But keep it good!

Dani Donovan: Of course. So, this whole journey was actually kind of an accident. I’d been a graphic designer for 15 years, and at my new job, I overheard a coworker talking about therapy. I thought, Wait, we can just talk about therapy? I’d never discussed therapy with any of my friends, and here was someone being open about it. That made me feel safe enough to share that I had ADHD. Nobody was surprised, but it was the first time I felt comfortable being open about it at work.

We ended up making some inside jokes, including one about how I tell stories. Later, I created a visual piece about storytelling: "How Other People Tell Stories" vs. "How I Tell Stories." The non-ADHD storytelling version was a simple start-to-end structure, but the ADHD version was this chaotic, winding chart full of pre-story prologues and tangents.

At first, I wasn’t going to post it. My boss followed me on Instagram, and I hadn’t disclosed my ADHD to him yet. But my friend insisted, saying, “This is too good—you’ve got to put it somewhere.” So, I posted it on Twitter, thinking no one would see it.

Then, Aaron Crook, another prominent voice in the online ADHD community, retweeted it. It hit the exact niche audience it was meant for and went viral. The comments were overwhelming, and I realized how much people resonated with it. That’s when I thought, I want to create more of this.

It became a kind of public art therapy for me. I started making comics to process my own experiences and to apply my BFA in Visual Communication and Design. It was incredibly fulfilling to use art as an outlet for understanding my ADHD.

When the pandemic started, I pivoted to TikTok because I was stuck at home and craving interaction. I noticed that the content people connected with the most wasn’t just about my experiences but also practical, ADHD-friendly strategies—ways to "hack your brain" and get things done when it feels impossible.

This led me to compile these ideas into a book called The Anti-Planner: How to Get Stuff Done When You Don’t Feel Like It. It’s a guide filled with creative productivity tips and problem-solving strategies.

Now, I get to talk about creative productivity for a living. It’s an amazing job, and I never could have predicted this path.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I feel that I have an awesome job—I never could have predicted it. I totally get that. And I remember meeting you years ago. I think it was at your first ADHD conference.

Dani Donovan: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It was the International Conference on ADHD. I can’t tell you which city, though—that would require way more working memory than I have.

Dani Donovan: Philadelphia?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Is that where it was? You would know—you were there! I remember you being led around by people, and there was this kind of deer-in-the-headlights look, like, What is happening here? Right? And now, fast forward a few years, you’ve really figured out that there’s this huge need out there, and you’re filling it.

Dani Donovan: It’s so funny because, yeah, that was 2019, and I really did feel so out of my element. Then, in 2021, I was the closing keynote at the CHADD conference. It’s incredible how much this space has grown, so big and so fast. People are now able to make such an impact. Even through podcasts like this, we’re able to connect with people on a massive scale and provide free information that can genuinely help improve their lives. It’s such a fulfilling purpose.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It really is. So, when people experience your creative work, what do you want for them?

Dani Donovan: My creative energy? Or my work?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Your work.

Dani Donovan: When my work resonates with someone, I want it to serve as a tool. A tool for sharing their experiences with others. For example, if someone struggles to explain how ADHD feels to a family member, spouse, coworker, or friend, they can use my content to bridge that gap.

A lot of my work frames ADHD experiences like this: Here’s what it’s like for me, and here’s how I perceive what life might be like for people who don’t struggle the way I do. It helps create a shared understanding. The most rewarding feedback is when someone says, Oh my God, someone finally gets it, or Wow, it’s not just me.

That “it’s not just me” moment is so powerful for people. It’s cathartic and validating, and I think that’s what much of my social media content—whether it’s TikTok videos, comics, or viral Twitter threads—offers.

With The Anti-Planner, I wanted to take that a step further. It’s not just about validation; it’s about action. Many people, including myself, have abandoned every traditional planner we’ve tried. At some point, you realize, Maybe the problem isn’t me. Maybe I’m trying to fit into a system that wasn’t designed for how my brain works.

The book offers practical strategies that are specifically designed for ADHD brains. It’s about finding tools that work for us, not forcing ourselves into systems that don’t. So, my work is about offering both emotional validation and tangible solutions—helping people feel understood and showing them ways to move forward.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I want to separate those two ideas if we can. What I heard you say, which was so powerful, is this: This is what it feels like. There's something deeply important for parents and professionals to understand in our world before diving into the tools, strategies, techniques, and hacks. Sure, there are countless ways to navigate living with ADHD. But if you don’t first understand the feelings, you’re approaching it backward. So, let’s talk about that. You emphasize vulnerability before tools—why is connecting with the feelings so important?

Dani Donovan: The feelings are a crucial aspect of ADHD—and really, for anyone who’s struggling. It’s this big, invisible weight that many people don’t talk about or even recognize in that way. Feelings like shame, guilt, and the fear of disappointing others weigh heavily. A lot of people have never felt like they could express just how frustrating or unfair it all feels. And when they do, if someone doesn’t understand, it’s easy for them to dismiss it with, “Well, that’s not that hard,” or “What are you talking about?”

This disconnect between perception and lived experience is significant. If you’re not around anyone who understands you, it’s so easy to internalize blame, thinking, What’s wrong with me? Why don’t I feel like everyone else? Uncovering how societal expectations have shaped these feelings and understanding that much of it has been instilled in us since childhood is transformative. It allows us to question the things we’ve been told about ourselves—the stories we’ve come to believe. What if those stories aren’t entirely true? What if we have the power to challenge them?

Giving people permission to forgive themselves and to explore these feelings has been a big part of my journey. That exploration is reflected in my content and the anti-planner. Initially, I was going to organize the tools by strategies, activities, and challenges. But I realized what I needed was based on emotions. For example, I’m feeling overwhelmed, intimidated, or perfectionistic. If I can identify the root emotion, I can find the right tool. Identifying the feelings is the first step in everything.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s fantastic—you’ve started to head in the direction I wanted to explore next. Let’s take a quick break, and we’ll dive deeper into this when we return.

[After Break]

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (continued): Welcome back, everyone! My guest is Dani Donovan, and we’re discussing the emotions and feelings that people with ADHD—and likely many others with executive function challenges—internalize. These feelings can make it even harder to do what’s being asked of us. Not because we can’t do it, but because we become overwhelmed by the emotions and the stories we tell ourselves. So, Dani, is it more about the emotions or the stories?

Dani Donovan: It’s a mix of both. In fact, at the beginning of the anti-planner, there’s a page titled RE: Self-Defeating Bullcrap.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Say it again.

Dani Donovan: Self-defeating bull crap. I’m not sure how much cussing I’m allowed on this podcast, so I’m keeping it pretty PG. But I’ve got this quote: I’m just going to lose it. And then, below that, my response to the quote: Nothing ever works. Here’s the thing—those storylines we tell ourselves about why we think something won’t work? I’ve addressed them all in the anti-planner. I know those storylines because I live in that same headspace.

We tell ourselves things like, Nothing ever works. I always fail. I’m just going to lose it. Every time we repeat these stories, they become self-fulfilling prophecies. We struggle with the same issues, and when things go wrong, it reinforces the narrative: See? I was right. I always quit. I always fail. That’s why I designed this tool to be used in those high-emotion moments—when feelings are interfering with productivity. The beauty of it is, you don’t have to use it every day or every week for it to be helpful. You could put it down for three years and still find value when you need it. This approach helps break the unhelpful narratives people have about productivity tools—that if they’re not used constantly, they’re a failure.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that. You said something that really struck me, and I don’t want to lose it because it’s so important. What you’re describing is how we cement these negative stories for ourselves. When we tell ourselves, I’m not good enough. I’m going to mess this up. It never works, we reinforce those beliefs. And here’s the aha for me: as parents, we unintentionally do the same thing to our kids.

We might say, Sure, you want to do it? Fine, go ahead and do it. But when they’re not ready to handle it independently—which they often aren’t—we throw up our hands and say, See? I told you you couldn’t do it. Then we step in and take over, directing them through it again. In our language, we call this moving from phase four back to phase one. What’s so critical about what you just said is that we, as parents, unintentionally lock in those same negative messages for our kids when it’s the last thing we want to do.

Dani Donovan: That’s the reinforcement.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly. So, as a stepmom, what comes up for you when you hear this? How do we handle that? How do we break that cycle?

Dani Donovan: It can be so challenging to recognize these moments in real-time, especially when emotions are running high. For me, as someone with ADHD—let alone a parent—it’s even harder. I was a frustrating kid, and as an adult, I still frustrate myself! Sometimes I think, If you’re frustrated with me, imagine living in my head 24/7, 365 days a year.

Managing that frustration requires a deep breath, emotional regulation, and resetting yourself—especially when you feel triggered. It’s hard when those reinforced storylines come up, like, You always do this or You never do that. Those phrases can be incredibly damaging, especially when internalized at a young age. They linger in the back of your mind and become the very things you end up untangling in therapy years later. No parent is perfect—we’re all doing the best we can with the resources we have at the time.

But what’s really difficult is seeing your child fall into the same unhelpful thinking patterns you’ve struggled with yourself—sometimes patterns you didn’t even realize you had. For example, Colin, my 10-year-old, loves to draw and color. But if something isn’t perfect, he’ll start over. And then again. And again. He’ll keep restarting until he’s exhausted, frustrated, and left with nothing to show for all his effort. He’ll say, I don’t want to do this anymore. Watching him go through that is heartbreaking because I see so much of myself in him. I think, That’s only okay when I do it—and even then, it’s not okay when I do it.

It’s a painful reminder of the pressure we put on ourselves and our fear of failure. Especially for those of us with ADHD, who may have faced more criticism than our neurotypical peers, every bit of critique hits harder and leaves a deeper mark.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What you said really resonates—it is heartbreaking to watch. It’s so painful that, as parents, we instinctively want to shield our kids from it. We think we’re circumventing their pain by fixing things for them or stepping in to do it ourselves. We believe we’re helping, but we’re not.

If we’re not approaching them with compassion for what they’re feeling, we’re missing the point. What I’m hearing is that it’s about getting into the mind of the person experiencing the struggle—not just observing their behavior from the outside.

Dani Donovan: Yes, and I think that’s what people love about my content—it allows them to step into the shoes of someone with ADHD and better understand their perception and experience of how the world feels. For example, I created one illustration about laundry. It compares the non-ADHD experience, where there are a few evenly sized hurdles labeled wash, dry, fold, and put away, to the ADHD version. In the ADHD one, the hurdles get progressively taller, and put away is completely off the screen.

It highlights how each step compounds on itself, making it harder to reach the next one. Is this objectively harder work? Maybe not, but it feels like it because you’re constantly swimming upstream, while someone else might be navigating a slightly choppy but manageable pool. It’s like, “This isn’t that hard.” And I’m thinking, “You don’t know what it’s like because you’re not living my experience.”

As a step-parent and in any interaction, especially with kids, I try to remember this perspective. When a child is having a big emotional reaction, it’s important not to approach it with cold logic or my 33-year-old brain saying, “This isn’t a big deal.” For that child, it is a big deal—it’s one of the biggest they’ve faced in their life so far. I remind myself to empathize and ask, “How would I feel if I were this age going through this?” Kids are working with a different set of emotional tools, and they need compassion to navigate those feelings.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, maybe a lot of compassion.

Dani Donovan: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So don’t approach it with logic—recognize it’s about tapping into the emotion. Once you connect with the emotion, you can move forward. That’s key. What we talked about earlier ties into productivity: spending time understanding the emotions we’re dealing with is fundamental to getting things done. If we have one takeaway, it’s that emotions are central to progress.

Dani Donovan: Exactly. One thing people really appreciate about my book is how it’s organized by emotions. Each section focuses on a specific feeling—stuck, overwhelmed, unmotivated, disorganized, or discouraged—rather than just giving a long, overwhelming list of tips. For instance, if you’re feeling overwhelmed, you can turn to that section and find subsections like intimidated, overcommitted, panicked, or burnt out.

Each subsection includes bullet points with “I” statements, like, I feel there’s so much I need to do that I don’t even know where to start. Readers can go through those statements and think, “Does this sound like what’s playing in my head right now?” This approach helps them identify their emotions and thought patterns. It’s not just, “Here are the names of some feelings; figure it out.” It’s a step-by-step guide to recognizing what they’re experiencing and starting to address it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Dani Donovan: A lot of people struggle with that, especially if they haven’t been through a decade of therapy.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. And I know you’ve done therapy yourself, but you’ve also mentioned that ADHD coaching has been a game-changer for you.

Dani Donovan: Absolutely. After my mom, dad, and spouse, my ADHD coach is next in line in my thank-yous.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So what’s the impact of that for you? What makes it so important?

Dani Donovan: One of the biggest takeaways from coaching—and the core theme of my Anti-Planner—is this: if a tool isn’t working for you, it’s not the right tool.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Dani Donovan: It’s not a reflection of you as a person. If something doesn’t work for you, it’s just information. You can decide: do I want to adjust it and keep trying? Do I want to set it aside and come back to it later? Or do I want to let it go entirely because I genuinely dislike it?

When you view tools and strategies as experiments instead of permanent solutions, it changes everything. It’s not, “I failed because I quit after two months.” Instead, it’s, “Wow, this worked for me for two months! Maybe I’ll revisit it when I need something fresh.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I’m a novelty fiend, so I know something will only work for a couple of months before I get bored and need a new approach anyway.

Dani Donovan: Exactly! And sometimes, strategies come back into play when you need them. For example, kanban boards—using sticky notes to move tasks from to-do to in progress, on hold, or done. I use them for big, complicated projects. I’ll stay consistent for a while, but then I drift away from it.

Every time I take on another big project, though, I return to that strategy because it works for me in those situations. I used to feel guilty about not sticking with it long-term, but now I realize I don’t need it all the time. It’s a tool I can pull out when I need it, and that’s okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I’m the same way with a mind map. When I’m totally overwhelmed, I go straight to a mind map and just dump everything onto it. I might not look at it again for six months, and then when I do, it’s like, check, check, check, check. I just needed to get it out of my head. We have to find what works for us and not let the judgment—the tyranny of the strategy—dominate how we figure out what works best.

Dani Donovan: Exactly. One of the biggest takeaways for me is that so much of the advice we’re given wasn’t designed with us in mind. So when it doesn’t work, we’re left thinking, “Everyone says I’m supposed to do this, and I tried, but after a week and a half, I got bored and gave up.” Before this big explosion of ADHD content online, there were very few places to find strategies created by people whose brains work like ours.

Now, we’re seeing this incredible burst of creative, novel strategies—ones that are fun, engaging, bite-sized, and perfect for ADHD brains. The beauty is that you can try out a lot of strategies, find what clicks, and move on to another one if it doesn’t work. It’s all about having options.

With the Anti-Planner, I even included a whole spread on how to invent your own strategies. It walks you through combining your personal interests with gamification techniques. There’s a list of interests and strategies so you can pair something you already enjoy with a method that works.

For example, we were talking earlier about studying. Colin came home with his first-ever study guide, and it was just straight memorization: Do you remember this date? What was this called? He got a 23% on his first attempt, and I thought, Oh no, I’m about to start homeschooling!

Instead of using traditional flashcards, I leaned into something he loves—art. I grabbed blank flashcards and said, “I’m going to read you a term. Write down what it is, then flip the card over, and I’ll read you the answer. On the back, I want you to draw it—make it into a comic.” He loved it.

We went through the whole stack this way. Then I made a second set of flashcards with just the names of the terms and asked him to match them with the pictures. Once he mastered that, I flipped it: “Here’s the picture; tell me the name.” Finally, we reversed it again: “Here’s the name; what does it mean?”

By making it visual and engaging, we completely transformed studying into something he enjoyed. And guess what? He got a 98 on his test.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. Well, I want to deconstruct what you just said, with your permission. First of all, he likes to draw, so you tapped into a strength and an area of interest. If you have a kid who doesn’t like to draw, that strategy wouldn’t be effective—it wouldn’t work. This is a perfect example of how a strategy needs to meet the needs and capacity of the person you’re engaging with. You had his buy-in. You were gaming and playing with him, engaging in a way that didn’t make him feel scolded or talked at. He was part of the process, and in doing so, you were teaching him a method of learning that he could replicate for himself in the future.

There’s a lot of beauty in that approach. And of course, this isn’t to say that this strategy will work for every child. But what Dani did was figure out: How does this child’s brain work? and How can we play to that? My hunch is that somewhere in the process, he pushed back, suggesting, No, let’s do it this way instead of that way. Is that fair? Was there a moment where he offered his own input, saying, What about this instead of that?

Dani Donovan: A little pushback, yeah. So at one point, I noticed some of the spelling was off. For instance, he wrote “John Adams” as “John ATOMS.” At first, I instinctively wanted to correct it and say, That’s not how you spell it. But instead, I paused and said, What if in this comic we drew how you’d represent “atoms”? He drew little atoms, which obviously had nothing to do with John Adams. But at the end of the day, the rest of the comic was in place, and the “atoms” were there too. When we reviewed it, he saw those atoms, and it clicked for him.

It was an interesting connection—a homophone that initially made me want to intervene and fix it. But by the end of the process, it was spelled correctly, and he was still able to identify it. That approach worked for him because it was about encouraging his creative process rather than correcting it outright.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful.

Dani Donovan: It’s a great example.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: All right, I hate to do this, but we need to start wrapping up. Tell people how they can learn more about you, your work, and your book.

Dani Donovan: Sure! My ADHD comics can be found on my website, adhddd.com, and information about my Anti-Planner is available at antiplanner.com. Both should be linked in the show notes. On my website, you’ll find my comics as well as embedded TikToks, so even if you don’t have a TikTok account, you can still watch them. There’s also plenty of information about the Anti-Planner there. You can follow me on all social media platforms at “Dani Donovan.” Again, all the links should be in the show notes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We’ll have everything there.

Dani Donovan: All the things!

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: All the things. Okay, this has been amazing, and I wish we had more time. As we wrap up, Dani, is there anything we haven’t discussed that you’d like to mention, or anything we’ve talked about that you’d like to highlight? How would you like to summarize this and help people?

Dani Donovan: I think you mentioned at one point the idea of sharing a meaningful quote, right? One quote that comes to mind, which is similar to something Brene Brown says, is: Your worth is not measured by your productivity. I think it’s important to remember that, especially when you have kids, or when you’re dealing with ADHD-related challenges, or even in a job where it feels like your livelihood is on the line. Productivity can feel like the most important thing to everyone all the time. It’s really tough because we don’t always take a step back and recognize the other important things. For example, I was having a really bad day, and my son Colin asked, *Do you want to watch Encanto?—which is my favorite movie. Those little moments are so important, and it’s easy to forget them when emotions are running high or when things aren’t going as planned.

It’s also helpful to remember that, when things aren’t working, involving the kids in the process can make a big difference. For example, if a task isn’t going well, instead of just dictating a solution, ask them, What might we try? It’s the same with coaching. When someone tells you what to do, it doesn’t stick as well as when you ask questions to figure out what they might want to try. This way, they’re invested because they had a hand in coming up with the solution. I think this approach, making things more collaborative, is key. For example, if cleaning a room is a challenge, instead of just telling them to do it, you could ask, How might we turn this into a game? You’re not expected to come up with all the answers yourself.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. So, asking questions to get buy-in and making it collaborative—that’s the takeaway. What you’re saying is, take a coaching approach, which I love. And I was going to ask you for your favorite quote or motto, and what I hear you saying is: Your worth is not measured by productivity.

Dani Donovan: Exactly—your worth, as a person, is not measured by your productivity. We can get so caught up in all of our perceived failures or the things we’re not doing that we forget to give ourselves credit for how hard we’re trying.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That is so true, isn’t it? Wow, that was awesome. Thank you, Dani. Thank you for what you’re doing—bringing joy, humor, and lightness to the world of navigating ADHD. One of the things I’ve always believed in and focused on is that, yes, we’re dealing with heavy stuff, but we need to hold it lightly. We have to find the humor and the joy—that’s the access point for managing ourselves most effectively. And I think you’ve modeled that so beautifully. You do it so well. So thank you for what you’re doing.

Dani Donovan: Thank you. Don’t make me cry! I really appreciate it. I wouldn’t be able to do any of this without the amazing community out there. So thank you so much for giving back and providing tools and strategies for people who need help too.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thanks. And to those of you listening, thank you for what you're doing for yourself and for your kids. Take a moment to reflect on this conversation. What are your key takeaways? What are you walking away with from what Dani and I discussed? We know what we talked about, but what insights are landing for you? How do you want to apply this in your life in the coming week? What do you want to do with it? What’s the insight that’s resonating with you right now?

Again, we honor what you’re doing for yourself and for your kids—whether you have your own complex challenges as an adult or you’re a neurotypical trying to navigate those of us with complex issues. At the end of the day, what you do, your engagement—being here, listening, tuning in, and doing the work—it all makes a difference. Take care, everyone.