Marina G.
I was attending some of the webinar where you talk about Sanity School. So I signed up right away. I think you had a special discount that time, so I signed up right away, and I started to go through Sanity School on my own. I found it very, very useful.
Then I bought the book—your book—and I listened to it probably twice. I do use Audible. So as a matter of fact, I listened once when I visited my daughter, on the way in and on the way out, which was great.

Then I found out—I didn't know from the beginning—that you have these short sessions, you know, small groups. So I found the groups. But also, at the same time, I felt my relationship with my daughter was very tumultuous. I had a therapist who was very good, but it was very "therapist sessions," and I really needed coaching.
So I asked Diane if she could be my coach, and she was. I spent a lovely six months—sometimes it was difficult and sometimes it was great. And even in certain situations—when, for example, the father figure in my daughter's life was dying—it was very difficult. I was able to call Diane on the phone on the weekend, and she was really very supportive.

So it was not just coaching, but also support in ad hoc situations. After six months, I felt like I didn't need one-on-one sessions anymore, but the continuous group sessions were very, very useful.
I think the best part about the group is that you see other parents suffer the way you suffer. Other parents have the same issues—and then they have solutions. It's not like a black hole where you have to put your head in the oven and say, "I don't know what to do." That's how I felt before. So that really gave me a lot of hope.

Diane Dempster
I love that. Well, just a piece of background, Marina, because you made a comment about going to visit your daughter and listening to Sanity School—you were going to visit your daughter. Just a point of background, because I know our audience includes parents of kids of all ages: you have a young adult daughter who's living away from home most of the year, but also at home part of the time.
Which is, yes, part of your dilemma—when you're together, it's a whole different dynamic than when you're long-distance. But what are some of the key challenges you're facing with your daughter at the stage she's at right now?

Marina G.
And you explain it so wisely. I still very much feel like I'm in director mode. Basically, I feel it's my job to tell her what to do. And if I don't tell her what to do, she'll be lost.
Sometimes she does need directions with some stuff, but I think because our relationship has been like that for so long, she sort of expects this in me too. So even when I start to change and use the tools from ImpactParents, I found that she didn't trust me. When I started to have a conversation and I said, "So what do you think?"—when she asked me a question, and I used some of the tools from Sanity School, like "What do you think? How would you deal with that?"—she was very suspicious. She would say, "If I knew, I would not ask you. Why are you telling me this?"

I feel like she was suspicious because she thought I was trying to convert her to do what I wanted her to do. I think that was the biggest thing for me—to basically let her be. And I think you wrote this in the book: how you feel like you have to tell your children what to do when they're watching TV, and you just tell them to do something. I relate to that. I feel like I'm sitting in my living room, and she's in her office playing her computer game, and in my head I'm thinking, "What should I do? What should I do?" But I don't have to do anything. I can just have my life, and she can live her life.

But I have this feeling—this need—and I think through ImpactParents, I'm sort of calm now. I don't have to do stuff. I feel like, OK, let her learn. Let her figure it out.

So that's really helped me a lot. And I think the combination—when you ask what helped me—I can't say one or the other. But I think the combination of individual coaching—because I really needed it at that time—and group coaching was powerful. I think also the individual coaching gave me belief in myself. I think Diane showed me that I could do it—because I was really desperate. Even though my daughter was away, I felt like I still had to manage her whole life.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
The word desperate. I think it's probably, Diana and I have talked about, it's the word that that parents come to us with all the time is that feeling of desperate. And what strikes me in, as you were telling your story is you said, you know, the relationship was tumultuous. You were working with a therapist who was good, but you knew you needed coaching. What, what did you think you needed that you weren't getting?

Marina G.
Well, I think the therapy can be very useful, but therapy is sort of, listen, therapy, right? And therapies can give you advice, but it's mostly you have to come to decisions if you don't go psychotherapy. But really behavior therapy, I think in the coaching situation, question can be much more forward. I'll give you example. I mean, this didn't happen maybe in question, but yeah, just give you example. Like I will say, okay, Elena did, my daughter's name is Elena. Elena did X, Y, Z, and I corrected her and I think she learned the lesson. That's like all parenting kind work.

So Diane will probably question. Say yes, good. She learned the lesson, but do you think that's the best approach? Right. So then they start to understand what is the best approach. So, I think during the coaching you have much more critical approach. Probably you can use constructive criticism to understand if that's proper word. I don't know, Diana, if this is the right word to use it, but I think.

Diane Dempster
I think it, well, what's coming up for me as you're saying that it, that we did a lot of, was just. Coming in with curiosity and, and going, okay, so how did that work? And what did you learn when you tried that and kind of exploring things as experiments. And so the thing you did yesterday as an example, was an experiment. And so what did we learn from what you've tried? And do you wanna try the same experiment again, or do you wanna shift it and move it forward in a different way?

Marina G.
But one thing I found is that it is challenging to I can see scientifically and intellectually that nagging my daughter and reminding her what to do does not work. I even learned this through one of her class and she was taking neuro diversion seminar and they were talking about her scientifically. People with ADHD do not respond. Nagging the brain does not work this way. So I have in impact parent telling me, Diane told me that Bo, you know, scientists told me that, but it still was very, very hard for me to give it up. And the only thing when I start to see then it's really doesn't work. When I start to see the result doesn't work. I have the scientific like aha. Well, don't waste your time.

Diane Dempster
Well, and I think that it's, so the other thing I would add, Marina, that I observed in our work together was that it, it wasn't just about noticing that it didn't work because everybody told you it didn't work, and you got that you didn't work, it didn't work. But what you went through, this was this process of, I don't know what else to do. Yeah. Besides, and so it's, it's even though people are telling me not to nag, if I don't understand what's underneath it for me and why I continue to nag, even when I know that it's not the thing. Yeah. Then it's really hard to change the behavior. We've gotta kind of get underneath it and go, what's going on? For me? I wanna feel like I'm doing something, and I don't know what else to do, so I nag.

Marina G.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I found that doing nothing was much more effective. Much more effective to get to the goal.
And what was the goal? Well, whatever the goal—like, I think the biggest problem was getting Elena off the phone or the computer, or if we had an appointment to go somewhere. So what I started to do: I started to get involved in the work she was doing. I noticed—if I could—and that's again, I learned from ImpactParents, right? To get curious about what she's doing. She's playing this game—she loves it. She loves to talk about it.

So instead of saying, "Come on, Lenny, get off the game. We have to go to this appointment," I would come in 20 minutes earlier and just ask her, "Explain to me about this character." And it's really important not to be patronizing, because she can smell patronizing from a distance. So if you're not interested, she knows right away. So I really got curious in a way—like with cars today. Cars are beautiful and the interesting design kind of intrigues me. That always sort of motivates her. She told me about it for 20 minutes, and then she—you know—she can stop doing what she was doing and move to something else.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
But what strikes me is that you leaned into the relationship. That you connected with her about something interesting to her, instead of standing there saying, "I want you to do something else."

Marina G.
Yes, exactly. And I'm not—I'm saying this doesn't always happen. I'm sorry.

Diane Dempster
No, no. We get that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Our guest is a member of our community, Marina, and we're talking about the ways that she began to apply the coach-approach in her relationship with her daughter to get the kind of results she wanted. And we were just talking about not nagging, and what it took for Marina—and what she needed to learn about and for herself—to give herself, really, it sounds like, almost to give yourself permission to not nag... yeah... but to connect with your daughter instead.

Marina G.
Yeah. And it takes time. And I think also—one of the things I would like to talk about is the relationship at home. I think you asked me this question early on. The relationship with—she's in college. Elena attends Landmark College, which is a college dedicated for neurodivergent students, and they have a lot of support.
They also want children to be independent. And Elena has been very much dependent on me—to make decisions, to help with memory. So that was another challenge. I had to deal with that—like her waking up. She's hearing impaired, she doesn't hear alarm clocks, she misses classes, she doesn't do homework.
And I found that ImpactParents helped me not just when she's home, but also from a distance.

Like, you know, don't call her if she doesn't wake up—just see what happens because some of the things I was doing had no impact. If she can't hear the alarm clock, she won't hear the telephone ring. If she doesn't want to do homework, she will not do the homework. Right? So for me, I was struggling so much in the beginning. But then through ImpactParents, I started to understand—what is really effective is her. And even Elena noticed. She noticed that. She said this to me:
"Mom, I think you are really different. I can see how you're changing."
And it was like—it was a big deal for me to hear that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
I bet. Well, what you just said is that she could kind of smell the patronizing. She was suspicious early on—like she could tell when you weren't being authentic.

Marina G.
Yeah, exactly. Yes, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Or she was, you know, wanting to make sure it wasn't just a ruse to control in a different way.

Marina G.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they're very smart and very perceptive. That's right. I mean, the brain works differently, but in certain areas, they're very perceptive.

Diane Dempster
Well, what's coming up for me, Marina, is that part of this was you holding it less tightly. Right? It's this sort of—yes—you think about like how tightly you were holding everything for her when you first came to us. What are some of the things that you think really helped you to hold it less tightly?

Marina G.
Yeah. I'll tell you two things. One—from a selfish perspective—because I felt relief. Because I felt, before Elena went to college, I saw tremendous codependency. Because when she's upset, she's depressed, friends don't—I get very sad and upset. And I felt, through having this separation, it doesn't affect me that much. She will call me, "I'm upset about—" Of course I'm upset. But I just didn't feel like I'm totally falling apart.

And that was sort of selfishly for me—like, Oh my God, I feel good. OK, she's having trouble with her friends. That's part of life. That's student life. But I'm OK. I can't do anything. It's out of my control. So that's from my perspective, and I started to see the benefits of that. But also from Elena's perspective, I feel like she became less stressed. Because I feel like in the past, when she'd call me—we have a very close relationship, good or bad—but we are. And she can call me like 10 times a day.
But she'd get very stressed and expect something bad to happen. Many times, the conversation ended up in some sort of argument or disagreement. It's become less and less, 'cuz I'm sort of listening to her. And I say, "OK, what do you think?" "I don't know." "OK, what do you think somebody else would decide?"

And it's become so much more pleasant a conversation that I think she became less stressed. And it's all from a distance—and it's hard when you have a conversation or text messages when you don't see each other. And we don't do FaceTime.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So I think what I just heard you saying is that part of it was about—as you learned to let go, and I like to say parenting is a daily exercise in letting go—Yeah, exactly. You practiced learning how to let go in a way that worked for both you and your daughter.
It reduced your stress, and it reduced her stress.

Marina G.
Yeah. And also, she was in an environment that basically understood neurodivergence—which was also good. Her teachers—I mean, everybody at Landmark—her advisor, and she made friends. And it was so beautiful to see her with her friends who totally got each other. Yeah, they just understand each other. And I felt like in the past, when I picked her up from school—from high school—and all the kids would go together and she was alone. And my heart would break seeing that. Yeah. And she didn't have a friend. Now she has friends. They're all neurodivergent, and they're all different in their own ways, but they accept each other and support each other. It's just amazing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So... do you have any favorite tools or techniques that you've learned in ImpactParents that you use most of all?

Marina G.
It's hard to say favorite.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
What's coming up?

Marina G.
I think one is about the trigger. I had this right here by my computer, and I gave it to Elena too—she has it in her backpack. And the whole idea—when you start to go up on the trigger curve, you can't just go down. You have to go all the way. You have to go through the whole thing. You can't just turn around.

So that was really good to learn. Another thing is—oh, this is probably my favorite: Whose agenda is this? And it's hard. It's really hard because when I say, "OK, this is my agenda," but then, "This is my agenda because it's good for her..." Yeah. And in some way, it's like—she gained a lot of weight. And she wanted to order ice cream. And I said, "No, Elena, I don't think you should." So... hold on. My agenda: don't order ice cream. Her agenda: order ice cream. And it becomes conflict. But the point is—I have to figure out other ways, not just push my agenda.

Diane Dempster
Yeah. I remember so distinctly, Marina, as you gave that example—a big part of this as parents is navigating our fears for our kids' future. And yes—we can see a behavior today and we're like, Oh, if this behavior is going on today, then for sure this is what's gonna happen in the future. And being able to kind of break that and go: OK, yes, this is the behavior I'm seeing today. Do they want to change the behavior? Do they not want to change the behavior? Do I want them to change the behavior? What's my role in their behavior? And how do I help influence rather than control?
Because when we get scared—that's when the part of us that wants to say, Yes, no ice cream ever!—shows up.

Marina G.
And it was difficult for me. But I know we were—during the group session—we talked about: Where are your children? Are they dreaming, are they planning, or are they taking action? And it was very difficult for me to see, "OK, if they're dreaming—just let them dream." I am action-oriented. I want things to be done. But I think, with time and more coaching, I figured out—you really can't move it like this. If they're dreaming, you just have to stay with them where they are. And I remember I used the same phrase for my work: You can't take nine women who are each one month pregnant and have a baby next month. Same idea too—you can't just expedite that. They have to go through the process.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
If you can help—they're on their own pace. Their pace is not the same as somebody else's, or maybe not what we expected.

Marina G.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's another thing—it was really nice to feel, OK, she's gonna be happy. The way she's gonna be happy—like what Diane was just talking about—you're so worried, projecting what's gonna happen. But now I say, OK, she's gonna be happy. I saw her happy with her friends, and she's gonna be happy—whatever she's gonna find out. Instead of being the therapist—she wants, she studied psychology—so either the famous therapist or she just works someplace.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
She's got a path, and she's on her way.

Marina G.
Yeah. I hope so.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Well, you know, and that's part of it—allowing and believing and accepting and, you know, managing our emotions. I think that's for the group. You know, we run groups, everybody—for parents of younger kids, teens, and then young adults. And Diane and I each lead groups for young adults—I think in part because we have young adults, and we need it too.

Diane Dempster
Yeah, absolutely.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And you know, you really—you do have to let them be. Be on their pace and do it on their time, for them to really... for it to be theirs.

Marina G.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Theirs, so they can accept it.

Diane Dempster
Well, and it's hard because there's all these outside pressures and the voices in our heads going, Yeah, but... And so that's one of the things I would just highlight, Marina, that you've done a beautiful job with—is figuring out: How do I meet her where she is and help her to be at this pace and this stage she's at, and support her there, rather than being impatient about her being somewhere else.

Marina G.
And I think it's true. Totally. And as a result—the positive result—I'm so much less stressed. I really am.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And I feel that—your energy. Like, from when I first met you to now, there's just this, you know, It's all gonna be OK kind of thing.

Marina G.
Right, exactly. I just—totally—I don't have this gloom and doom feeling, even when we have the hardest argument or some really bad things happen. I don't have this little feeling of desperate. I really don't.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Do you have a sense of what shifted that for you? Because that's like the secret sauce, right? Well, we talk about it a lot. I'm just curious.

Marina G.
Yeah. I, I think I started to see more and more—Elena as an individual human being and not my extension. Yeah, I mean it's horrible to say that. And you know, the notion I used to have—the good mother will sacrifice. My father used to say, Parents sacrifice for love. Love is sacrifice. And that's how I used to sort of pat myself on the back: I sacrifice for my daughter. And everybody would say, You sacrifice so much. But now I feel like, hmm, that's not good parenting. You know, good parenting is really letting her be. Let her be, and respect who she is—as hard as it is, because she can be very difficult.

Yeah. But then also I see she feels bad. That's one thing—she feels really bad if she does something disrespectful. She said to me the other day—she was very upset, crying—Mom, I'm not a bad person. I'm sorry. I dunno why I did this, but I'm not a bad person. And I said, No, you're not. So just to see her as an individual human being—not an attachment or appendix of me.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Oh, yeah. Well, and I—sometimes I think our kids, they do such a good job of beating themselves up that what they need from us is to build them up.

Diane Dempster
Yeah. It's true. And even if they don't say it out loud, you're fortunate that you—you could hear her. Hear her beating herself up. A lot of times as parents we don't actually hear that, and so we make an assumption that they don't care or they're checked out about it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So anything else you feel like you wanna share with—with the members of our community and to people who aren't in the community, but who...

Marina G.
The thing I do want to share is about Landmark College, because I really didn't know it existed. So I never thought my daughter could go to college. She was not a good student. She did not like to study. Then, when things changed, my neighbor recommended it to me. First, we went to Beacon—there were two colleges. One in Florida. It didn't work out—Beacon. But Landmark—I just didn't know it existed. And that's the sad part. It's a very small college. They only have 400 students, and it's only for neurodivergent students. They have classes of ten students per class, and it's very academic. They have quite a complicated curriculum, and she studies psychology. Another thing—I really like that they study a lot about neurodivergence.
So I learn—I help with this homework, I have to say that—and I learn so much about how the brain works. So she learns about herself. They all find respect and figure out how to live in this neurodivergent world. So it's not just education and a college environment—but also learning for them, about themselves. So I think—I wish people knew more about that. Because I think a lot of times people send kids—this happened to my neighbor...

Marina G.
Send the kids to different colleges, which have programs for neurodivergence—it never, it didn't work. A lot of students come to Landmark because they struggle going through these, you know, individual program colleges. So that's what I want the community to know. And also, another thing—I just want to say that no matter how old you are—I'm retired—it's never too late to learn. And I think the coach-approach, it's very much a learning approach. I found it—it's really... um, it's—you feel like you are growing, you know? You feel—you learn stuff. You don't feel any guilt. You don't feel like, Oh my God, I was so wrong for so many years. And the last thing I want to mention: as much as my daughter has had a difficult time, I feel that because of her neurodivergence, I met so many wonderful people.

I feel like my life is richer because of that. Some people say, Poor you, you suffer so much. But I felt like I met so many wonderful people. I saw so many successes and failures—and how people deal with that—and I feel my life is richer because of that. And I think that ImpactParents gives this community. So that's another thing I find I'm very grateful for.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Thank you for that. I share that feeling with you. I can't even imagine what life would've been like had I not met my kids where they were. And I was on the course to do it very differently. So I really share that feeling with you. It's definitely made my life bigger and better. Mm-hmm. And more interesting. And I think, you know, our kids are our greatest teachers—when we are willing to pay attention and learn from it.

Marina G.
Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
So, folks, anything else? Diane, anything you wanna wrap with before we click?

Diane Dempster
No, I just—Marina, I just wanna thank you for joining us today and thank you for, you know, the work you've been doing. You've just been so, you know, headfirst—making this happen for yourself and for your daughter. And it's been wonderful to be able to celebrate the accomplishments that you've made in this conversation today.

Marina G.
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Yeah. And I wanna echo that because, you know, Diane's had a chance to work with you privately. I've seen you, I've been with you in groups, and I can see the shift in the work you've done for yourself and your daughter. Because—I dunno you as well—but really just wanna acknowledge that there is a kind of... a palp of, like, an energy shift that I...

Marina G.
That's true.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And what a great gift for you and for your daughter. And it would not have happened if you hadn't stepped in and done the work.

Marina G.
Yeah, and you know what? I see the same thing in some other parents who—who have been in the group for a long time. And I can see the response. And then I see the new parents come in—their eyes open up—and then they get something, and it's just so interesting. Which is basically to say: knowledge, education, and learning the solution—and a little bit of time. Time, yeah. It does take a little bit of time. Exactly, exactly. So I'm really grateful. Very, very grateful to both of you for starting this program.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Thank you. Appreciate it. Again—thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your story with the community.

Marina G.
You're welcome.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
And for the work that you've done for yourself and your daughter. To those of you listening—take a moment. What are you taking away from this conversation? What's the insight or the A-ha, the awareness for you this week? What are you taking from this—and how do you wanna apply it to your life this week?

Diane Dempster
And, as always—thank you for what you do for yourself and for your kids.
At the end of the day, you really do make a difference.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus
Take care, everybody.