Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody, to another conversation in the Parenting with Impact podcast. We are excited today our guest today is Randi Rubenstein, who is also a parenting coach, and somebody Diane and I've had a chance to meet and are beginning to get to know better because we have so much synergy, and there's so much collective energy that we all bring to the world I think. When we met you the first time, I guess on your podcast, it was just like, oh my gosh, we could talk to her all day long. So we're so excited this is [inaudible]

Diane Dempster: Yeah. We speak the same language.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And one of the things you talk about in your bio, and so I want to talk about, is cycle braking. But let's start by asking you to tell us a little bit about what you do with parents and how you came to be doing this work.

Randi Rubenstein: So, hi, thanks for having me. I know, it's so fun to be with you too again. As a Jewish person, I feel like I've like traveled to Israel.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We've come home.

Randi Rubenstein: I found my people. So yeah. I accidentally came to be doing this work. I work with parents that have "strong-willed kid." And I think there's different varieties of strong-willed kids. And my son was kind of the confusing, puzzling type. He held it together all day long for all the people. And then he came home, which y'all are probably familiar with the term, not so catchy term after school restraint collapse. He was collapsing. I read this article years ago, and it was like after-school restraint collapse, and I was like, oh my gosh, that's my kid. That is exactly what happened to my house. So yeah, from preschool on, I mean, I would be at those parent conferences. And I'm like, do you notice? And they're like, he's great. Y'all are great parent; go have a nice life. And I was thinking, thanks. Okay. And then he would just come home. And I didn't realize it at the time, but I was constantly trying to happy him up. And he just always seemed like he was in a pissed-off mood. And frankly, he was born, being sort of pissed off and kind of just never stopped. And it was just every single stage was just hard. Not like impossible, but exhausting. And I am definitely a glass half full, and I am definitely like, I want my people to be happy. I mean, look, that's a lot of pressure to put on anyone. If I was exhausted and out of spoons, and not having my best day, and all of a sudden, there was someone constantly around me trying to push me and pressure me to put a smile on my face and be happy. I think I'd be ready to combust, and so I didn't realize that's what I was doing to him until he was about seven. And when he was seven and I took a taking a parenting class when he was three. And I had another baby I was you know, reading, reading, reading all these books. My husband was like, what are you reading, and why do you look like you're cramming for semester final? Did you sign up for something? And I was like, just be quiet.

Diane Dempster: I am reading.

Randi Rubenstein: Right. I'm reading here. I'm trying to solve a problem.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I'm busy here. I'm doing the work of parenting here.

Diane Dempster: I'm learning something.

Randi Rubenstein: I'm going to crack the code, and then my kid is going to be happy. And so I've been reading so many different things and taking programs and yada yada and around seven, I remember he was just in a pissed-off mood. He was in his room. Probably I'd sent him to his room. And I went in to sit down and have a chat. And he looked at me with so much anger on his face. And he just said, "There's nothing wrong with me." And I said, "Of course, there's nothing wrong with you. You're beautiful. You're perfect. You're amazing. What do you what do you mean? Of course, there's nothing wrong with you." And it was like his way of saying, lady, I'm onto you. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Back off. Stop fixing me.

Randi Rubenstein: I know you're constantly trying to fix me. I know you think there's something wrong with me, and it feels like shit. And so this little seven-year-old Yoda gave me the wake-up call I needed. And I like to say I have two easy kids. And maybe they're easy because I had my difficult kid first. I'm not sure. I would say when I read a book when he was 10, I finally got my hands on the book that resonated. And it was The Highly Sensitive Child by Elaine Aron. I mean, he's 25 now, so this is a long time ago. But when I read that book, I was like, this is my kid. It all makes sense. I'm understanding more. And then I realized, oh, and my husband's also highly sensitive. And then I figured out that my daughter is a version of high sensitivity, not quite as much as her brother. So I started to understand that more. And I had not been given a strong-willed kid and been forced to learn what I've been learning for the last 25 years and doing what I've been doing. And now you know, like you ladies, it's my life's work because I'm obsessed with it because it's changed my life, everything that I've been introduced to. And so I like to say, these challenging kids, these strong-willed kids, these kids that are wired differently, who just are not going to go along to get along with old school parenting tactics or a fear-based model. They call us [inaudible] and that's what [inaudible] for me. And I consider myself a successful cycle breaker in many respects. And I find that the parents that I help usually have deep down a desire to do things differently than they were done for them when they were growing up as well. So that's, yeah, my story.

Diane Dempster: So many places to go. Where do you want to go?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There are. Well, so here's what I want to speak to first because I was going back to not my eldest, my youngest, actually, my son, when he was maybe 6, 7, 8, whatever, it was the same thing that like coming home. And he would come home from school, and it's like, this happened, and this happened, and then I started getting some coach training. And I realized that I needed to stop stopping it and start saying, and what else? What else? And what else? And what was amazing is once I let him get through the litany of all of the assaults and insults of his life and world and all of his [overlapping] at everything that was wrong, then it was like, well, this one. And then he would flip into this different way of being. But what you're speaking to just resonates so much, like I remember it so viscerally, like having to learn to let him have his experience with what his day was, and that rather than trying to stop it, my job was to let him express it and process it, so he could work through it.

Randi Rubenstein: So I mean, that concept is the concept that is the one that I learn and unlearn and relearn. That is the concept. That is the concept that makes me a recovering fixer who quite often relapses because I just want them to be happy. And I need evidence that they're happy, and I have a million terms for it. Like when they're wet blanketing, when they're dead ending, when they're a constant, the Alexander had the horrible, blah, blah, blah, day like they're doing. All I want to do is try to convince them that it's really not that bad. 

Diane Dempster: So let's not make ourselves wrong for wanting our kids to be happy. I think it's the way we go about it. And I think that part of what ends up happening is that it's really hard to hear our kids say tough stuff. I mean, it's like a parent the other day, it's like, their kid says, I hate myself. I'm so terrible. I can't believe- And we immediately but you're not. You're so smart, and look what you can do and blah, blah, blah. And it's like we're immediately discounting everything they just tried to share with us that breaks trust, which makes them feel potentially less healthy than they were feeling when they were trying to express themselves. I mean, there's a cycle we get into good meaning we're doing it for the right reasons, but it's hard to watch our kids be unhappy, is what you're describing

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And what you're saying, Diane, is that by doing that, we're not seeing them, and they're not feeling seen. And that's what I'm hearing you describing Randi is shifting from my agenda of I want you to be happy to this agenda of who are you? And who do you need me to be for you? 

Randi Rubenstein: Right. And whatever your experience is, I just believe you. I just got the truth bumps because that's what every human wants, I think, is just unconditional love, whether it's with a friend. It's in adult relationships too. And I mean, I had a friend recently she's going through a transition in her life, so she's making some choices that would invite a lot of judgment. We hadn't talked in about a week, and she was catching me up on some of her decisions that she might regret in the future. And she goes, oh, I just wasn't ready to talk about it. And I couldn't say it out loud. And I was like, why did you think I was going to judge you? And she was like, I don't know. I was like, my role as your friend, I'm just here to love you. Like, you get to be a whole grown-ass woman and make all your own decisions. And I'm just here to love you and support you. I'm not here to judge you. And I honestly think I was thinking about this since then, and it's really the truth. I haven't always been that friend. Like, there were so many years where I was like the big sister friend who was always telling other people giving them the helpful tips. And I think I am now able to show up as that truly non-judgmental, unconditionally loving friend because I've had this training with my kids because practicing this skill and relearning this skill of what does it look like to just receive the people that you love and to see them and believe them and not to try and change them and fix them? 

Diane Dempster: The question is coming up because I know several of you are asking this is like this sort of, we do want to guide our kids, and how do you do that from a place of non-judgment, rather than from a place of trying to fix?

Randi Rubenstein: I mean, I would say that people are so capable, and especially kids are so incredibly capable. And when we can just find our superpowers, which is difficult to quell our own anxiety. And just it's that pause. They tell you it's just exactly what you said about when they're complaining and complaining and complaining. And you're just like, yeah, oh, that blows. Tell me more.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Bummer, man.

Randi Rubenstein: And then that happened? Wait, what? Really, oh, my gosh, is if it couldn't get any worse. And we're just hearing them, and we're just pausing. And we're not trying to tell them what to do.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or feel.

Randi Rubenstein: Right, or feel, that pause, which is so incredibly hard because our anxiety is bubbling up in that moment. So when we just don't give into the anxiety, and we just allow them, and I've seen this time and time again, with my own kids, before you know it, because they're humans, and because they don't want to stay in that feeling of terribleness, they start to come up with their own solutions. And then they start, and they're like, well, actually, you know what? It wasn't as bad as I just said. This other thing happened, and then you're, like, finding out more to the story. And then, before you know it, they're solving their own problem. And you're over here saying, okay, that's amazing. You've got this. I believe in you. And now you have a kid that's got agency over their lives, so you are teaching them

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love this. I had this great example of this recently with my son, who called me and said I want your advice. And after 30 seconds of me going wait, did he just asked me for advice? He's never asked me for advice. Did he use the A word? 

Diane Dempster: He is 23, by the way.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: 22. I get very centered on. I'm like, okay, what do you need? And we had this great conversation. And really, it was very clear. He wasn't looking for my advice. He was looking for feedback and a sounding board, and so when he was done, I was like, it doesn't sound like you're looking for advice. It sounds like you're looking for feedback, and this is what I think. He's like, you're right. But thank you, that was really helpful. You know, what was really helpful? I didn't do anything. I just listened. And so one of the things you said a few minutes ago, and we're going to take a quick break, and then I want to come back and ask you about what you said about relearning this skill, again and again. So we're going to take a quick pause, and we'll be right back. So one of the things you said earlier that I loved and you've said this twice in this conversation, is that I get this stuff, and then I lose it. And then I get this stuff, and then I lose it, and I relearn this skill again, and again. So will you speak a little bit to that human experience of actually learning and recovering and learning again?

Randi Rubenstein: I think it's loaded. I think quite often, it's hard to look back and look when you know that you did it wrong. I'm sure you are familiar with Carol Dweck's work. And so it's fixed mindset. If I was raised in fixed mindset, it wasn't safe to make mistakes. It wasn't safe to look emotionally safe to look at hmm, damn, I made that same mistake again.

Diane Dempster: That didn't work the way I thought it should. 

Randi Rubenstein: Right. Okay, like having the courage to look at a situation that you just screwed up, even though you're saying to yourself, oh, why do I keep doing this? I know better. I teach this stuff. I coach other parents. I'm a fraud. 

Diane Dempster: No, I never do that. 

Randi Rubenstein: Right. I mean, it's like that negative voice in your head will prevent you from looking at it. So when you can have the courage to be like, all right, and I'm human. Like, I'm sorry, retraining your brain. It's like learning a foreign language as an adult or learning how to ski as an adult. It's freaking hard. And so, of course, I keep falling back into old patterns because this is a skill that I've been practicing for 10, 15 years, but I had many more decades of practicing the old way. And so okay, yeah. I wonder why I fell into the old pattern. What triggered me? And so I bring some curiosity, and I show up, and I'm brave, and I look at it and. And this is something that I teach is when you can look at a situation that you know, you got wrong and you're beating yourself up because you know, you know better, and you're doing better. Damn it, Maya Angelou with that freaking quote, like, yeah, I know better. And guess what? I'm not doing better. So now I feel like worse.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Now I feel worse. 

Randi Rubenstein: So when you can just say, hmm, even if you can just put that in your brain, hmm. And there's a breath that kind of happens. There's a little bit of a grounding that even happens from hmm that is a curious sound. And so the hmm, makes me say, hmm, well, I'll just do that. And it's like, I'm not ready to look at it yet because there's a whole shame spot, okay. I'm not ready to look at it yet, but I'm going to journal on this. I know I'm going to journal on this. I know there's something to figure out. I know that I fell back into an old pattern because there was something else that I must have been feeling anxious about. And so I just really try to bring some curiosity, and even if I'm not ready to revisit it now, in this moment, because it's too fresh. It's like, my daughter used to and still like if something goes sideways with us, and then I have a productive conversation with her, and we start coming back together, and she's forgiven me. I'll go for the hug, and she her stiffen up, and I'll say too soon. I'm like, I'm repelling you right now. She's, like, kind of. I was like, okay, it's cool. Too soon. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Got you.

Randi Rubenstein: Yeah. If it's too soon to revisit it, like give yourself some space. And just like, no, like, I know, there was a reason why I fell back into that old pattern, and I'm going to look at that a little more closely.

Diane Dempster: Well, and sometimes it's really simple because when we get dysregulated, we fall into the old patterns. We don't have access to the part of our brain that goes, oh, wait. I'm doing a different now we go back into that old habit. And remember, we started with, we're doing this thing because we want our kid to be happier. We're doing this thing because we want the best for our kid. I mean, our heart is in the right place, and so it's hard not to fall back into that pattern. As humans, it's what we're going to do probably over and over and over again. And so I just want to bring that in that it's not one day you're going to wake up, and suddenly you're never going to do it again. News here, you might, and it's okay. And you said that earlier, it's like, over and over and over again, I'm relearning this stuff.

Randi Rubenstein: That's right. It's almost like the practices in forgiving yourself.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Almost.

Diane Dempster: Never.

Randi Rubenstein: Because the thing is, I love that you just said that about the dysregulation; guess what happens when you start to go through menopause? 

Diane Dempster: Dysregulated all the time.

Randi Rubenstein: Dysregulated all the time. I'm like, what is happening? And what am I up in the middle of the night for so long? And so when I'm not getting a great night of sleep, guess what? I'm spending the next day a little dysregulated or dysregulated more of than not, so I'm going to fall back. Yes, like we get to be messy humans. It's just part of the experience for all of us.

Diane Dempster: What a nice gift to give your kids, too. It's like what you were describing with your daughter. It's the sort of you can say what, totally had a dysregulated day yesterday. Can we have a do-over, or can I get your help on this or whatever it is to kind of really engage our kids and letting them know that this is part of human experience, and we're in the middle of it?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I love that line, what you just said, we get to be messy humans. We often say, you know, permission to be human is granted for you. We get to be messy humans. And that may be what this is all about is that when we can allow ourselves to be messy, then we can be present to them, and they don't feel like they have to be perfect. And they get to learn how to follow through.

Diane Dempster: Well, it's like both of those things, right? It's sort of we get to be messy. And then, going back to Randi, your original conversation about your son is the sort of you had a hard time letting him be messy, and you're trying to fix it all the time, so it's about both of us.

Randi Rubenstein: That's right, him being messy felt like evidence that I wasn't doing it differently. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or right.

Randi Rubenstein: I was going to be my kids were going to have such a happier childhood than I don't think I realized this in a conscious way. But every time this poor little kid was just exhausted from a day at school and in a pissed-off mood, and whatever it was, or his tag was itching him so badly, and he could feel it. It was like, all this pressure, like, you need to be evidence that I am keeping my promise to myself, and I'm giving my children a happier childhood than I had. It was so much pressure, and I didn't know this consciously. So I have a ton of grace for myself from that period of time. You know what I like to say? I like think about people that aren't messy, even just like super neat freak people or-

Diane Dempster: Is there anybody who's really not messy, Brandi, come on?

Randi Rubenstein: No, but with the people who like just seem like they're always together, and they have it all figured out, and everything's perfect. And I'm just like, no offense, but you're not that interesting to me. I like messy.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You're not fun to be around. I know.

Diane Dempster: You're not my people. Sorry.

Randi Rubenstein: You're not my people. I like a little mess. It's like, it's all too a little too vanilla. I'm like, do we want to watch a movie or read a book about a perfect human who was like, I was born, my life was wonderful, and then I died? Like, that's just not a story. The human experience is messy, and it's supposed to be.

Diane Dempster: So we want to start wrapping up. I mean, we could talk to you. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We don't really want to, but we have to.

Diane Dempster: This is amazing, but so if people want to connect with you, which I know a lot of these folks do, what's the best way to connect with you?

Randi Rubenstein: Well, since I already know your podcast listeners, I also have a podcast, and it's called the Mastermind Parenting podcast, and I think we'll include a link somewhere. And I would love for you to put my podcast in your queue as well and listen up.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Awesome. We'll have other information in terms of website and all of that in the show notes as well. 

Randi Rubenstein: Great.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So we did want to start wrapping up this conversation. What do you want to share with our listeners to wrap this up? Is there something new we haven't talked about you want to make sure that we speak to you today? Or is there another message we've given that you really want to hone in on? Where do you want to wrap up your role here today, your voice?

Randi Rubenstein: You know, something that I've been talking about recently, actually, with my own coach, is just the tremendous pressure that parents and specifically women moms are under that I've been describing it as like we're human tea kettles. And when you're raising a child that is wired differently or highly sensitive or strong-willed like the population of have parents that are listening to your podcast or my podcast, it is harder and the pressure is tremendous, and it's layered, and it's complicated. And I want to say if I could go back to younger me, if there was any way I could say to her, sort of like I did to my friend, like I got you, I'm just here to love you. I'm not here to judge you. I'm just here to love you and believe in you as a grown-ass woman. And you don't have to be perfect. You're allowed to be messy. And I would love for the listeners to take that away and just to know  we see you, and you're amazing. And we know that because, guess what? If you weren't amazing, you wouldn't be the kind of parent that listens to things like this.

Diane Dempster: We wouldn't be here.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly.

Randi Rubenstein: You'd be doing anything else. You'd be watching Netflix. You'd be watching the last season of the Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. 

Diane Dempster: Well, wait a second. I'm watching the last season of Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But the moment at your podcast.

Randi Rubenstein: Not at the moment that you're doing this. First of all, I'm watching the marvelous Mrs. Maisel, and I have to say-

Diane Dempster: It's so good.

Randi Rubenstein: The first season was great. And then, to me, it got progressively worse. And now this last one is as good as the first season. 

Diane Dempster: Okay, segue back. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So I hear that we see you, and you're amazing. And that's the acknowledgement that what we all want you guys to hear is that we have this tendency to see when our kids are doing well, we acknowledge them for it. And when our kids are struggling, we blame ourselves for it. And so there's something here about acknowledging what you're doing, that's helping your kids struggle and be well with it, and vice versa. Like you're on your journey, being with them on their journey. And if you're here and you're listening, chances are, you're doing something right. 

Randi Rubenstein: You're doing a lot. Since you listen to things like this you do deserve to go and relax and watch a show and do something for you because the pressure is intense. And we just want to say we are here, and we see you, and we love you. And most likely, you're not hearing that enough.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's so true.

Diane Dempster: It's so true. Thank you, Randi. That's amazing. So we've talked about so many different things. But the last thing we like to close our guests with is a quote or a motto that you love that you want to leave our audience with.

Randi Rubenstein:I have a lot that the members of my community quite often repeat back to me the things that they hear me repeating quite often. And one of the things that many of them their kids even like put up in their rooms is the mantra calm people solve problems.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Oh, I love that.

Diane Dempster: Oh, I love that a lot.

Randi Rubenstein: And the thing is, is that that mantra, the last thing I want is for anyone to feel the pressure to be the calm person all the time. And also, when our kids are dysregulated, when we're dysregulated, it's an easy-to-grab mantra for we're going to just take a pause here and come back together because only calm people solve problems, so we're not getting anywhere right now. So it's like a good way to take sort of like a timeout from each other calm people solve problems.

 Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. Yeah, I love we talk a lot about commit to calm because it's a process. It's not always going to be there.

 Randi Rubenstein: Right. It's impossible to be in. And nobody in the history of calming down ever calmed down from being told to calm down.

 Elaine Taylor-Klaus: To calm down. 

 Diane Dempster: You said that this week. That's so funny. I love that.

 Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that. Thank you. It was beautiful. All right, my friends. This was lovely, as we knew it would be. Randi, thank you for being with us, and thank you for the beautiful work you're doing in the world. It's been great to find you meet you, find a fellow traveler on this fascinating journey. And we really appreciate knowing you and excited to play more as we all move forward in the future. 

 Randi Rubenstein: So excited. Okay, thanks so much for having me.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Truly a pleasure to those of you listening. Take a minute; what's your insight from today? What are you taking away from this conversation with Randi? We ended with calm people, but we talked about being a cycle breaker in so many different ways and the experience of unconditional love and listening and seeing people where they are. What's the insight or awareness? What's the aha that you're taking away from this conversation, and how do you want to bring it forward with you into your week? What do you want to do with this information moving forward? 

Diane Dempster: And for all of those of you who are listening, thank you for everything that you're doing for yourself and for your kids. At the end of the day, you make the difference.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Take care, everybody. Have a great week.

Helpful Links:

-Parent Expectations: 2 Steps to Success 

-Parenting is Leadership Guide