Act Like A Grown Up: Preventive Maintenance in Parenting (podcast #18)

Being a parent is an incredibly challenging journey and can lead to some serious cases of burnout or ineffective parenting. That's why it's so critical to take time for a little preventive maintenance. It can come in a variety of shapes and sizes, but it gives us space to breathe, catch up and ultimately be the best parent we can be!

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About Dr. Laura Markham

Dr. Laura Markham trained as a Clinical Psychologist at Columbia University and is the founding editor of AhaParenting.com and has made frequent TV and radio appearances. She uses her Ph.D. to translate proven science and child-development research into the practical solutions you need for the family life you want.

Dr. Markham's relationship-based parenting model, which she calls Peaceful Parenting, is research-based and parent-tested. She's helped thousands of families across the U.S. and Canada find transformative solutions to everything from separation anxiety and sleep problems to sass talk and cell phones.

Connect With Dr. Laura Markham

  • Learn to connect with your child, no matter what age they are.
  • Self-care and self-awareness will ensure you parent from a place of calm.
  • Five preventative maintenance practices for your kid’s emotional wellbeing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome everybody back to another conversation of Parenting with Impact. We are thrilled to have you here. We are thrilled to have our guests here. Dr. Laura Markham, known to many of you as the peaceful parenting expert.

She's got multiple best-selling books. She's the founder of AHA Parenting. All of that information and bio in detail is in the show notes so you can read all about her, and that way, we can jump into a fascinating conversation with the one and only Dr. Laura. So, thanks for being here.

Laura Markham: My pleasure.

Diane Dempster: So, Dr. Laura, why don't you start talking a little bit about how you ended up in this work and what you do with parents?

Laura Markham: Okay. Well, I always loved kids and I was always really interested in what made people tick and so I always want to change the world. So when I got out of college, I started in the newspaper because I figured if you give people information, they make smart decisions if they have real accurate information about the world.

But as I'm running this newspaper, I had to teach myself all kinds of things like marketing and accounting, which I really had no interest in. I loved writing, but of course, I love psychology. So I would go to the library, and I would get books on accounting, which I really did not like, and I would sneak into the psychology section and the child development section.

I had no children, I was in my 20s. But I would look at those books too, and I would always get one out, just allow myself one of those books. So finally, eventually, I decided I'm going to go back and get my degree, my Ph.D. in clinical psychology and I did that at Columbia University. And just as I finished my classwork, my first child was born.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So it was like a lab practicum?

Laura Markham: Exactly. Oh, my goodness. Nobody understands how hard this is, and there wasn't a lot of support. So I'm like, wow, how do parents do this? And I was around my parents all the time because my son and I would hang with other parents.

I saw them doing all kinds of things that I knew from my own studies and research could be done better, but they didn't know better. How could they know better? They're just parents. And I thought parents need more support.

This is the hardest job in the world and parents go into this with zero support. I have a PhD. They don't have anything and I thought something has to change here, so that's why I went into the field. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love it. So you started off with kids and realized that it was the parents that made the difference for the kids, which we can understand greatly. When you and I first met, I knew we had a lot in common but I rarely hear anybody else say that they knew as young that they wanted to change the world.

So, kindred spirit with you. I really appreciate that and respect that, and you have. I mean, you've really made a huge difference. You've had a dynamic impact on helping parents understand that it's not just about information.

Laura Markham: Right. The people were racing every day, in our families in our kitchens, those are the people who are going to be in charge of the world or contributing to the world by contributing their unique gifts.

And so if we can do a little bit better than our parents did, if we can stop the cycles that aren't so helpful, and give our kids a little more emotional generosity and what they need to thrive, I think we really can make the world a better place.

Diane Dempster: So what is it that you feel like parents are missing? What is it that they need to know that may not come intuitively?

Laura Markham: I think parents think that parenting is what you do when something goes wrong. When the kid throws his sippy cup across the room or says no diaper change, or whatever. I'm starting early because that's when it starts.

And parents think, "Okay, I got a parent here." Actually, parenting starts in your own equilibrium. It starts with when you get up in the morning and you maybe don't feel so great. Many of us wake up in the morning, some days you feel good.

Some days, you don't feel good, but you bring yourself back. You have a set of practices you use, whether that's a gratitude practice, or you work out whatever it is that works for you to get yourself back to some equilibrium so you can then be more emotionally generous with your child when he does throw the sippy cup. That's one thing. Parenting starts with you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because he will throw the sippy cup. 

Laura Markham: There's no question. He's a child. He's going to do childish behavior. Our job is to show up in a way that we can use that as an opportunity for connection instead of disconnection, and that's the second thing parents don't know is that the secret is all about connection.

It's not the strategy. It's like is marriage a set of strategies? No. There's some things that were better than others but it's a relationship. It's what you build with that person. The same thing is true of parenting. It's a connection.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We've actually been talking about this all day in a way. Diane and I did a webinar today but as we were preparing for that, we often got into these philosophical conversations. And in our work like yours, there's a lot of emphasis on relationships.

And what we've been looking at is what goes into that, so there's communication skills. There's trust building. We've been looking at all the different components that create or strengthen a healthy relationship.

Diane Dempster: And the healthy relationship strengthens all the components. There's this interplay between the different things. What are some of the core things that parents could do differently if it's about connection, if it's about relationship?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I want to challenge the word do there? So what's different for parents because it may be a doing and it may be a being, or some combination? 

Laura Markham: And the thinking because our belief system and our thoughts shape our actions so often. So I would say what's different for parents is to remember that children's needs are not just a good night's sleep and a decent meal and a chance to get outside and run around. All is as important as those things are.

Children's needs are also about connection and they need to feel connected to thrive, even to feel safe. And so I would say that would be the first need and to learn. Kids cannot settle down and learn until they feel connected and safe, whether they're in the classroom or at home.

Diane Dempster: Some of these kids are hard to connect to. I know we work with parents of complex kids. Sometimes the kids are moody and sometimes they use disrespectful communication and sometimes they're hard to connect with then they shut down. They get triggered. I mean, all of these things happen.

Laura Markham: So absolutely true. And I think that's why what matters first is that you have your emotional equilibrium in order that when you notice yourself getting testy with your kid, because you will, because we're human, we're not perfect. We're not saints.

The kids are exhibiting childish behavior, and we get testy. So the minute you notice that, you stop, drop your agenda, take a deep breath, and you do a little reset. If you can monitor yourself and keep returning yourself, at least to more calm, if not total calm, all day long, you'll have more inner resources to draw, and you'll be more creative.

First of all, you can not take it personally. When your kid gets like that, instead of feeling miffed and like, after everything I do for you, all right then. That's what you sometimes want to say. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or you might say it.

Diane Dempster: Or I might be a bad mom.

Laura Markham: Right, or maybe I broke my kid, in which case then all bets you're you go into a screaming fit or go have a drink, it's nothing you do is going to be good at that point I tried. So I think if you can remind yourself not to take it personally.

And if you can get curious instead. Instead of getting angry, take a breath and remind yourself it's not about you. This person that you're dealing with is an immature human being who's still learning and is complicated, and they're having a hard time. That's when they need you most.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We often say don't get curious; get curious. And the thing that really struck me in what you just said that I don't want to get slipped, was you said drop your agenda and reclaim yourself.

We call it reclaiming the brain. But that notion that you don't necessarily have to get out the door, the dishes don't necessarily have to be cleaned. That's the hard part.

Diane Dempster: You don't have to win the fight.

Laura Markham: You don't even have to furnish the lesson. We have to teach a lesson right now. That's your fight or flight talk that you need to win. It's not really what your child thinks.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's the worst time to try to teach the lesson. 

Diane Dempster: Oh, yeah. If everybody's triggered, nobody's nobody's learning anything.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But that's a hard piece for parents that letting go in order to say, well, this has to happen. That's the task. And I have this constant conversation with my middle kid, who taught me this notion of the distinction between task and relationship.

Some people are very task-oriented. Some people are relationship-oriented, and we're always navigating that balance. And as parents, we have to give ourselves permission to put the relationship first, is what I'm hearing. 

Laura Markham: I love that when you say how to parents how do they could they think differently that would help them and help their child. I think relationship first would be the motto we could all put up around our houses.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Go ahead.

Laura Markham: I was going to elaborate on this a little bit more that you said, what could parents do differently? How could they think differently? I think that if we said relationship first, and we remembered to take care of ourselves, just to keep coming back to you, set your device to go off every hour and just check in with yourself.

Maybe all you need is just to like, shake out your hands and do a crazy dance for a minute. Maybe you forgot to pee because you've been so busy. Whatever it is, take care of you, and then reconnect with your child. Now, if they're busy doing something, don't interrupt them.

But the point is that this kind of preventive maintenance keeps them from getting testy so often, even the more complicated kids. But let's say they are being complicated and difficult and testy and shutting you out, then that's a whole challenge to connect with.

But again, we don't have to be right. We could let go of our idea about how it is to connect with someone else. They don't have to come snuggle up with us and read the story. Maybe, in fact, they're being difficult because we had our phone out, and they're trying to get our attention. Kids often will be almost aggressive or hostile when we get on our phones. 

Diane Dempster: Laura, what's coming up for me, as you're saying that is there's this foundational work we do when our kids are younger and I know like us, you work with parents of kids with all of all ages.

And so a parent this afternoon said, "Oh, my kid is almost in college; is it too late?" It's this sort of thing. And so let's talk about that a little bit about what connection and that environment looks like when your kid is older and really does want to be independent.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because when they're younger, we know how to cuddle, but as that starts to shift, how does that shift?

Laura Markham: First of all, it's never too late. I want to remember to say that, which I'm sure is what you said to this mom is it's never too late. But also, as it starts to shift, and we can't just pick them up and toss them around to get them laughing and snuggle up with them on the couch, we can find ways to connect that work for them.

So, preteens often want to share their music. I'm not a big fan of video games, but watching him play his game and show you how he does it and pouring your admiration into him that's a very powerful bonding experience where he is seen and valued. And you really get who he is and how good he is at this. Those things are their way of connecting with us.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What you're saying is super important because so often parents are vilifying the technology, making the video games the bad thing. And so when we make the video bad, it makes it really hard for our kids to want to share it with us.

Diane Dempster: The other piece that that's in that is as parents, we feel like it's our job to instill our values on our kids. We want them to like what we like. We want them to do what we do. We want them to value what we value and so we don't do that flip and go well, what is it that's most interesting to them? What is it that they value? 

Laura Markham: And I think you've just nailed it. Talk less; listen more. Ask good questions.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, we often say ask, don't tell. The only thing that really jumped out at what you said, you said preventive maintenance, so that's self-care, and you said it keeps it from being testy, and it keeps our kids from being testy and it keeps us from being testing. So we're always looking at both as I hear it.

Laura Markham: Yes. There's preventive maintenance for us and we all know what works for us, and it's a little different for each person. But there's preventive maintenance for them also. Just like they need enough sleep at night every kid needs to laugh every day.

The truth is I believe every human needs to laugh every day. It changes the body chemistry. It reduces the stress hormones that make us all testy when we laugh, and it also, if we're laughing with someone else, we bond with them because oxytocin is released in the bloodstream when we laugh.

And so whoever you're with, you're bonding with, it's a feel-good hormone, but it's the bonding hormone, too. I talk about preventive maintenance, I have five practices I say are the preventive maintenance practices to keep your kid on an even keel emotionally. One of them we've already talked about is laughter. Another is empathy. Just whatever they say if they can feel understood by you, and it can be as simple as I wish it weren't raining.

So the kid says I hate this rain and you say you wish it wasn't raining. I hear you. That's all. Not chicken again. I hate chicken even though they ate the same thing last week, and they loved it. You say you wish it wasn't chicken. You're not saying I'm sorry, I made the chicken.

You're saying you wish it wasn't this way. You're just acknowledging whatever they're saying so empathy is two.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And using that skill of mirroring their language, capturing their language, and just playing it back for them.

Laura Markham: Beautiful. A third thing is routines that build in connection. So having routines really helps kids feel like they know what's going to happen next. Having some structure in their lives helps them to feel more secure, and it's important to build a connection into some of those routines.

So you have the bedtime routine, where no matter how old your kid gets, there's some time in that bedtime routine where you're hanging with them and listening to them talk about their day or having some other connection time.

Diane Dempster: I was thinking about my daughter just went off to college. She's a junior and she's like, okay, so every day when you walk the dog, will you call me, and we can talk together while you're walking the dog? And I'm like, oh, yeah, absolutely. That's routine.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: As you were saying that, I immediately jumped to lying in bed with my kids reading because that was my childhood. And I'm remembering when I first started coaching, so kind of a little while ago, one of the very first clients I ever worked with had two boys, seven, and nine, and she had absolutely no bedtime routine.

She was a bright, educated, accomplished professional woman, and there was no bedtime routine at all. It was that simple just helping her see the value of that and creating that, and what a huge shift it made for every other part of their dynamic by having that one time a day where they knew what to expect, she knew what to expect, and they were coming together. That's really profound.

Laura Markham: Exactly. So that's three of my preventive maintenance. The fourth one-on-one time, so this is really beyond bedtime. This is just finding some time.

I was talking to a mom today with six children, finding some time to connect with each one of them in the course of the day, even though you have six of them and no matter how old they get. This is true from babies to teens, or I love it in college talking to them when you're walking the dog. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I call it dating your kids, so I'm with you. 

Laura Markham: Yes, exactly. And then, finally, welcoming emotions. It's a little different than empathy. It starts with empathy but it gets into if your kid is testy and having a hard time and shutting you out and slamming the door, whatever, instead of saying, you know better than that, go to your room, which is what most of us are trying to say.

You say, "Whoa, something's going on. How can I help? You're having a hard time." Sometimes they will turn around and say, "You know what's going on. You're the worst mom in the world." You'll be on the receiving end of an attack, and you still can take a breath and say, "I hear how upset you are about this."

And you can and you can say, "Tell me more." Or "Oh, I guess you think it's really unfair that," or whatever they're saying to you, you can acknowledge it. Now, once they calm down a little, "You know, sweetie, you never need to yell at me that way. I'm always here to listen."

So you're absolutely setting a limit that we treat each other respectfully, but not until- what did you say?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Not in that moment. 

Laura Markham: Exactly. Never in that moment, because they cannot learn, as they have pointed out in that moment when tempers are escalated. So it's our job to act like grown-ups. It's our job to stay emotionally regulated, provide a safe holding container for their feelings.

Welcome those emotions because that's the only way they work through them. If you don't let your kid have those negative emotions, they don't just disappear. They make us sick and tired and explosive.

Diane Dempster: What you said is it's our job to be the grown-up, and what I want to acknowledge is that's hard when you're dysregulated. And I think that's what ends up happening is that we go into that fight or flight that you were talking about earlier. It's hard to be a grown-up.

We want to be the boss and in charge and in control, or we want to be out of there depending on whether we're fight or flight. I think the question is how to feel like you're being grown-up but that you're not being stomped on?

This is what parents say to me all the time. I got to be that grown-up, but they can't treat me that way. 

Laura Markham: I think the question is, are you parenting for change for transformation in the longer term, or do you just want to assert something now that will make you feel better right now, because when we feel bad in that moment, if we're in fight or flight, if we're in fight, we just need to attack.

That's what fight does, and we forget that's our darling child who we actually want to nurture and teach. That's not the moment to teach.

They're not going to learn at that moment. So instead, we provide the holding container for their upset, and then afterwards, we talk to them about how that upset is not necessary. That's where they learn the most important lessons like, what do you do when you're dysregulated? 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: How do we help you learn to navigate that?

Diane Dempster: Or how do you handle it when you're dysregulated so you can model for them? Is that what you're saying? 

Laura Markham: Exactly, yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, here's the irony that just came to me as y'all were having this conversation. Our job is to act like a grown-up, and the irony is that when we stop acting like a grown-up is when we expect them to act like a grown-up and they don't.

Laura Markham: I love that. So true.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's really the twist of what's happening is that we get frustrated when they actually act like children, and then we start acting like children.

Laura Markham: And we expect so much of them. Parents say to me, "Sometimes when he hits his brother, I really can't control myself, and I just have to smack him." And I'm like, "Okay, you're 34 years old. He's five years old.

If you can't control yourself, and you have to smack him," then at that moment, that's why he smacked his brother because he can't control himself. And he's only five, so we need to do a better job modeling for him. And by the way, I want to acknowledge every parent listening. It is really hard. Every parent has felt the urge to smack our child.

Now, hopefully, we're able to stop that, take a deep breath, rein ourselves in, get our regulation back together, and be a better role model, but it's not like we don't have these feelings. And our children, it's natural for them to have these feelings.

Our job is to support them to develop the skills for self-regulation as well, and that starts with us with our regulation.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly. Let's give people some information about how they can get in touch with you, and then we'll come back and finish the conversation. But I want to take a quick pause because we're getting near the end. Where would you like to direct people to find more information about you?

Laura Markham: So my website is ahaparenting.com A-H-A like those aha moments where you see things differently. So it's ahaparenting.com and you can get free weekly support from me in the form of a newsletter in your inbox that people say is the best thing to show up in their inbox all week. I'm honored to say.

And, in fact, I'll give you a link for a meditation that I made for parents last year that has been so hard for parents. I call it a grounding meditation that helps us to get re-centered. So, I'll give you that link.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful, that'd be great. If you give us that, we'll put it in the show notes and all the information that people need to be able to just click and make it super easy. Thank you. Appreciate it. And I'd love it. I want to go to that meditation.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, I need a grounding meditation sometimes. 

Laura Markham: We all do.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because we've got a little final button question to ask you. But before that, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners or something that you hope parents will take away from today?

Laura Markham: I think it's the hardest job ever, and you don't have to be perfect at it. Your kids are going to be okay, if you just keep giving yourself some compassion and grace. If you mess up, like, as soon as you can do it, you go hug your child, and you say, I'm sorry, you didn't deserve that. I was having a hard day, whatever you say.

And then you, as I say, you give yourself some compassion and grace. And you ask your higher wisdom. Like, if I had this to do over again, what could I do differently? You could ask that. You can just go get a good night's sleep, which is maybe what you didn't have to give away, and get up the next morning determined to put one foot in front of the other and try again.

And as long as you increase your ratio of good moments to bad moments, you do end up on a whole new path. 

Diane Dempster: I love that's just you're moving the needle. You're not trying to get it perfect.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And the other thing I want to say really clearly, particularly because of our specific audience, is if you notice yourself doing this again and again and again, and you're not moving that needle, and if you're not increasing the ratio of good, good moments to bad moments, get some help.

Ask for the help you need. It doesn't matter whether it's a coach or a therapist. Find the resource that will help you begin to shift the dynamic because you don't have to live with this, and your kids don't, either. If you're not feeling like you're handling all of the complications of these complex labs with the grace that you want there's a lot of resources to help you do that.

Diane Dempster: I don't want to say what Dr. Laura, what you said earlier; it's never too late. So many parents were like, "Oh, I just can't wait for my kids to get off to college."

And it's like, no, that's the essence. It can be some of the best time to connect with your kids and have a relationship with your kids because they get in in a very different way. 

Laura Markham: Yeah. I hear from parents all the time that they wish they had done something earlier. I teach an online course, and in the evaluations, people say things like, I didn't know how helpful this would be. I wish I'd done it earlier, or I hear this about my books.

And I'm sure you hear it about your work, too, because parents feel like somehow they have to do it all themselves, but they don't. It's too hard to do by yourself. We all need support.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, in so many ways.

Diane Dempster: So, as we wrap up, we love to have you share with our audience a favorite quote or a motto that you think will resonate with them.

Laura Markham: I'd say choose love. There's always more love because sometimes, as parents, we just have to dig deep. But in fact, if we're willing to let go of being right, let go of winning, if we're willing to just say, okay, what would love to hear as opposed to what am I driven to do to teach this lesson or whatever?

I think when we just stop and take a breath and say, okay, I'm going to choose love, it opens up so many possibilities.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Now, I was talking to a mom yesterday who's new to our community, and she was confessing, which we hear a lot. Sometimes I don't like my kids. That's not uncommon. If you feel that way you're not alone.

Sometimes, when it's hard to like them, choosing love becomes all the more important. Yes, and what is it that you love, if that means going back to those early moments, your first encounter with them, whatever that is, finding the connection and loops back to the beginning of the conversation about the value of connection. I love that. Thank you.

Diane Dempster: Thank you so much, Dr. Laura, for being with us. What a great conversation about connection and love, and I loved your five practices to connect with kids.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: The preventive maintenance. Thank you for being here.

Laura Markham: It was a pleasure to talk to you both again. Thanks.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, it's lovely. To those of you listening, we appreciate your engagement, your being here, your presence.

Just remember, we want to thank you for what you're doing for yourself and for your kids. Because at the end of the day, that's what makes the biggest difference. Take care, everyone.

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