Jenny Drennan

So, an educational therapist, I think it’s growing much more since the pandemic and social media. It’s becoming more known. Essentially, we are professionals who work with students one-on-one, usually students with diverse learning needs. They often have a learning disability, and I use the word disability because that’s what these challenges are typically called. We look at neuropsychological and psychoeducational profiles. We examine those profiles based on the battery of assessments that have been completed for the child. From there, we choose learning interventions based on the student’s learning profile. We look at processing speed, academic skills, cognitive skills, and other factors.

Then we ask, based on how the student is functioning, what the parent has shared, what the teachers have shared, and what the test results show, what interventions would be helpful for this child to learn. We can specialize in math, writing, or reading. One of the most well-known approaches is Orton-Gillingham, which is commonly used to teach students with dyslexia. We use specialized approaches to teach specific skills.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Before we go into explaining all these different modalities, how did you become an educational therapist?

Jenny Drennan

That’s a good question. I didn’t know what it was at first. I was working at a private school in Los Angeles, and there was an educational therapist there. She eventually became a really good mentor of mine. She was working with about three students in my class, and we collaborated closely to support them. Every year we continued working together because there was always at least one student in my class who worked with her. We became close, and that’s how I entered the world of educational therapy.

Diane Dempster

It used to be, not that long ago, that educational therapists were mostly in California. Now it’s grown into other places. It used to be school-based, and now you work virtually. Talk a little bit about the evolution of the industry.

Jenny Drennan

You’re right. It was primarily a California-based profession and wasn’t widely known. Now you’re seeing more schools, especially private schools, employing educational therapists. I hope it continues to expand into public schools as well. It’s spreading to larger cities first, but I’m also seeing it emerge in other states and communities.

What’s great is that our practice works primarily with older students, from about fourth grade through college, and we support them virtually. For younger students, especially those using Orton-Gillingham or Wilson programs for reading, or students with dyscalculia who need a lot of hands-on manipulatives, in-person support is often more effective. It really depends on the child and what type of support best fits their needs.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

I want to put a pin in that because we’re going to come back to it. But based on what you’ve described, when I think about my own kids in school, it sounds similar to what might have been called a learning specialist. What’s the difference?

Jenny Drennan

Learning specialists in private schools usually create a learning plan for a student. They’re generally not providing specialized interventions for students with dyslexia, at least not in California. Schools that offer those kinds of interventions typically have separate programs.

A learning specialist is more likely to support a student with ADHD through accommodations. The supports are less intervention-based and more focused on helping the student function within the classroom. For example, they might arrange for the student to sit at the front of the room, provide a second set of textbooks for home, or make other classroom accommodations.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

So you’re talking about the difference between accommodations and remediation.

Jenny Drennan

Exactly. Learning specialists, at least in private schools, usually work with students across all grade levels. They meet with parents and coordinate support plans. They’re not typically meeting with students one-on-one every week to provide interventions. Their role is to give teachers guidance, coordinate accommodations, and work with families, rather than provide direct weekly or daily intervention services.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Yeah. Really, it’s interesting because, to your point, it really is different in different states and different parts of the country.

Jenny Drennan

Yeah. Yes, it is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Even what it’s called.

Diane Dempster

Yeah. What you’re describing is someone who creates the plan for how the child is supported, particularly in the classroom. I think this highlights the difference between supports in the classroom and supports outside the classroom. We have a learning specialist who creates the plan. Then there are all kinds of practitioners doing interventions. That might be an occupational therapist, a special education interventionist, or other specialists working directly with students. Is there any other terminology we should include in that list?

Jenny Drennan

No, I think you’ve got that right. At least in California, there are schools that provide direct interventions. They teach students with dyslexia using approaches like Orton-Gillingham. Those schools operate differently from more traditional private schools that primarily have learning specialists who provide plans and accommodations.

Diane Dempster

That makes sense. Then there’s the special education role. Is that different, or is it just different language?

Jenny Drennan

That’s different language. An educational therapist is someone working one-on-one with the student and providing the daily interventions directly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Got it. Let me pull back for a second because something interesting just came up. We were talking about what happens in the classroom, what happens in the school, and what happens in the child’s overall learning experience. There are really several layers here. We’ve talked about educational therapists, learning specialists, occupational therapists, and special education providers. Most of those roles operate either in the classroom or within the school environment.

Jenny Drennan

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Sometimes occupational therapists can be brought into the school setting, depending on the child’s needs, although they may also work privately. Are there other people who commonly show up in schools to support kids?

Jenny Drennan

You have advocates. Educational advocates usually work with parents to support the child. We also function as educational coaches. Much like you coach parents, we use coaching language with students, especially students with ADHD, while providing learning interventions. Beyond that, I’d mainly say specialists.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Okay. So those are the options within the school environment. When we move outside of school, what kinds of support available to families?

Jenny Drennan

You have tutors. Then, depending on the student’s age, you may have college consultants, educational therapists, and other specialists.

Diane Dempster

Executive function coaches.

Jenny Drennan

Right. Executive function coaches.

Diane Dempster

And parenting coaches. Don’t forget parenting coaches.

Jenny Drennan

Of course. Yes. Everything is connected. It really depends on the age of the student and the family’s needs.

Diane Dempster

Elaine mentioned life coaches earlier too. There are student life coaches.

Jenny Drennan

Mm-hmm. Again, it depends on the age group we’re talking about.

Diane Dempster

What about educational consultants? That’s another role.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Yeah. Educational consultants usually work more with parents than directly with students. They’re often helping with school placement and broader educational decisions. But all of these roles are connected.

What we’ve just listed is nearly a dozen different specialties that can support families of complex kids, both inside and outside of school, and that’s only around learning. We haven’t even touched all the other areas of support families might need. It can be really overwhelming for parents.

Jenny Drennan

Yeah. Because where do you even start? Who do you need?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Our guest is Jenny Drennan, who’s an educational therapist with We Thrive Learning, and we are talking about all the different kinds of supports available to kids around school. From educational therapy to executive function coaching, parent coaching, learning specialists, tutors, consultants, and more, there are so many options. It can be really overwhelming for parents trying to figure out what their child actually needs. So how do you start?

Jenny Drennan

Yeah, that’s a great question. I’ll kind of do it in layers. Tutors are usually where parents start first. Anyone can be a tutor. A lot of parents will say, “Oh, we hired a high school student to tutor math.” Tutors don’t necessarily have to know how to teach. They need to know how to do the work so they can show a child how to solve a math problem or memorize the steps without necessarily developing a deep conceptual understanding. I’m not saying that’s true of all tutors. Some are excellent at what they do and are very creative in how they teach content and vocabulary. But generally speaking, a tutor teaches to the test or to the grade level.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Can I add to that?

Jenny Drennan

Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

In my experience, the tutor got them through the assignments. The tutor’s focus was on getting school done.

Jenny Drennan

Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

It wasn’t about learning how to learn. It was about completing the work, which is sometimes important and, to your point, often where families begin. The child is struggling, so they find a math tutor or a writing tutor.

Jenny Drennan

Exactly. It’s short-term support.

Diane Dempster

And I think it’s important to add that many tutors understand executive function, while others don’t. If you’re listening to this podcast, chances are your child struggles with executive function. Part of hiring a tutor is making sure they understand executive function challenges well enough that, while helping your child complete the work, they’re also helping them navigate those challenges or at least recognize that they’re working with a student who has executive function difficulties.

Jenny Drennan

Yeah. Tutoring is very content-specific. For example, we’ll sometimes refer students to tutors because they need a chemistry tutor. That’s highly specialized content support. If a child is still struggling, still not understanding the material, still dislikes the subject, or is working two or three times harder than expected without seeing results, that’s when we start digging deeper. We get curious. Is there a learning challenge? Is there anxiety around school? What’s really going on? That’s when conversations with teachers begin, and often a recommendation for an educational therapist comes into the picture, especially if the child has a learning disability or executive function challenges. An educational therapist teaches skills. How do we read? How do we comprehend text? How do we actively study instead of passively studying? How do we write a well-structured, organized essay? The work is much more specialized because the techniques, interventions, and approaches are tailored to the child’s cognitive profile.

Many educational therapists will say they teach executive function skills, and they do. But if your child has ADHD, simply teaching them how to use a planner or explaining why planners are important often isn’t enough. That’s where coaching becomes incredibly valuable. Coaching blends open-ended questions and collaboration with an understanding of the student’s cognitive profile to gain buy-in. It helps students commit to using tools and strategies, choose goals they care about, and take ownership of the process.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

So let me interrupt for a second because you’ve used the term cognitive profile twice.

Jenny Drennan

Okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Yeah. It feels like we took a leap from a tutor to once we understand the cognitive profile, we begin to address it. So how do you identify the cognitive profile? Did we miss a provider in there?

Jenny Drennan

Yeah. Good question. If we’re thinking, “Okay, this child is struggling. We don’t understand why they’re struggling. They’re behind grade level,” that’s usually when a teacher, school, or parent requests assessments. A battery of assessments is conducted, and those assessments can be done by a neuropsychologist or a school psychologist.

Once we get the results, we can see academic skills like reading and math, as well as cognitive skills such as processing speed, fluid reasoning, working memory, and other areas. Looking at all of that together helps us determine whether a student has dyslexia, dyscalculia, ADHD, a writing disability, or another learning challenge.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

So once you identify that a child is struggling, you begin looking for evaluation and assessment. It can be done by a school psychologist, a private psychologist, or a neuropsychologist. In some places, learning specialists in schools also conduct assessments. It depends on where you live.

The school should be able to help guide you through the assessment process. If you’re concerned that something is going on and you’re not sure what it is, you want your child evaluated. There are many resources available, and in public schools especially, the school has a responsibility to respond and help get testing done. If you’re struggling with that process, that’s where educational advocates can come in.

Diane Dempster

One thing people have told us is that the most effective language to use is, “I’d like my child evaluated for special education services.” That doesn’t mean your child will end up in special education. It simply starts the process of figuring out exactly what support they need.

Jenny Drennan

Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

And the language matters. Especially in public schools, you’re working within a bureaucratic system. Before you can manage the challenges, you first have to identify them. Most of the supports we’ve been talking about happen after that assessment is completed.

Jenny Drennan

Exactly. This is also where advocates can become important. If a school disagrees with the need for testing or doesn’t want to evaluate, an advocate can help navigate that process.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Right. Once you’ve identified the challenges and completed the assessment process, whether through the school, privately, or with the help of an advocate, that’s when you get to professionals like Jenny. Now you know what you’re dealing with.

I often tell parents that when they come to me and say their child has been diagnosed with something, my response is, “Congratulations.” Because now you know what you’re dealing with.

Jenny Drennan

Yeah. And depending on the school, this is often where IEPs or 504 plans come into the picture. In private schools, the process may look a little different.

Diane Dempster

Jenny, one thing you’ve talked about before is that some specialties are licenses, while others are labels. If someone calls themselves an occupational therapist, they’ve completed specific education and licensing requirements. But with other roles, that’s not always the case.

So how does a parent determine whether someone is actually qualified? What questions should they ask when looking for an educational therapist or another type of support provider?

Jenny Drennan

That’s a great question. For educational therapists, I recommend checking the Association of Educational Therapists. That’s where vetted educational therapists are listed. Membership means they’ve earned a master’s degree in education or special education, completed additional training, and met the requirements to become an educational therapist.

There are different levels as well: associate, professional, and board-certified educational therapist, which is the highest level.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

What really jumps out at me is that this applies to almost every type of provider we’ve discussed. Tutors, executive function coaches, parent coaches, educational therapists, and many others may not be licensed clinicians.

Honestly, even with licensed clinicians, a degree alone doesn’t mean someone understands dyslexia, executive function, or a particular area of expertise. So yes, qualifications and professional organizations matter. Coaches can look at organizations like the International Coaching Federation. But what else should parents be looking for?

Jenny Drennan

If you’re looking for support, I’d be cautious about anyone who says they can do everything. You want someone with a specialty, a niche. Who are the students they work best with? Who do they really understand? It’s hard to be an expert in everything.

If you’re looking for executive function support, many educational therapists will say they teach executive function skills, and they probably do. But for a child with ADHD, simply teaching executive function skills often isn’t enough. If someone just teaches the skills, they may not stick. That’s where coaching becomes especially valuable.

You really need to understand how a provider plans to work with your child. Ask about their methods and approaches. If they say they work with dyscalculia, for example, ask how they teach it. It shouldn’t just be pencil and paper. Those students need manipulatives and hands-on learning. The strategies and methods they describe will tell you whether they truly specialize in that area.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

And how would a parent know that?

Jenny Drennan

By talking to them. When you’re looking for an educational therapist, talk to several people. Find out whose personality fits your child best and who can provide the support your child actually needs. Who really gets your child? I often tell parents, “You sound great, but I know someone who would be an even better fit for your child.” If it’s not us, there’s someone else who can provide the right support. I always recommend talking with at least three different professionals. Pay attention to their process. You want someone who takes time to understand your child, not someone who spends 15 minutes with you and immediately signs you up. A good provider will review assessments, talk with teachers, ask for report cards and teacher comments, and build a complete learning profile of your child and family.

Diane Dempster

What’s coming up for me is that there’s a lot of overlap among these labels. Sometimes parents think, “I need an executive function coach,” but it may not be that simple. Let go of the labels a little bit. In areas without formal licensing, people may use different titles for similar work. Look for professional organizations that help identify qualified providers, and ask lots of questions. There are also great resources online that can help parents come up with interview questions for executive function coaches and other specialists. And I love your advice to speak with at least three people. A huge part of this process is finding the right fit.

Jenny Drennan

It is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

A lot of it’s about fit.

Diane Dempster

Yeah.

Jenny Drennan

Huge about fit.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

I hate to do this, but we have to start wrapping the conversation, but I have a question I wanna come back to, if that’s okay with you.

Jenny Drennan

Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

All right. Let me take a pause just to let you guys know how you can find out more about Jenny and her company. Her company is called We Thrive Learning, and you can go to wethrivelearning.com. She’s got a Facebook group, We Thrive Learning. She’s got a podcast. It’ll all be in the show notes, and I highly encourage you to find out more. We’re a huge fan. Jenny has been a member of our community, our professional community. Part of the reason I love hearing you talk about, “Are they really teaching them, or are they coaching them?” is because Jenny got into coaching in part because she did some work with us and realized what a difference it made.

Jenny Drennan

All the difference.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Right. In the work with your kids. I think we have a success story, don’t we? I’ll put your podcast success story as a link as well. We talked about that. So find out more. Check out wethrivelearning.com. Definitely. I wanna come back and give you the chance to answer the question: Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanna talk about? And I have a question I wanna ask you, too. So which should we do first? Let me ask you first. Is there anything we haven’t talked about that you wanna make sure you hit today or that you wanna highlight?

Jenny Drennan

Yeah. I think honestly, when we get our calls, parents are trying to put out fires. It’s because something isn’t going well at home. Those are the calls we get. So if you’re noticing that someone is struggling, for you and your child, just come back to the relationship you have with your child, and then also see if someone else can step in to support what’s going on for them. If you’re fighting to get the homework done or because things aren’t going how you expect them to, it’s easy for us to catastrophize and fortune tell and do all these things. Just focus on the relationship you have with your child. In the end, from all the kids that we’ve worked with, it always works out. It literally always works out. For us to keep that in mind, I think it goes a long way for them and for us, too.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

I love that. Lean into relationship is the language we like to play with. If you start there, things start to unfold because that’s what lets you feel safe, right?

Diane Dempster

What’s coming up for me underneath that is how many parents outsource. They’re like, “I want somebody to just take care of this and help my kid.” What you’re describing is that that’s a setup. Because the reality is, no matter who your kiddo is working with, you wanna be there. You live with your kid. You’re there with your kid. How many times have you had a kid with an executive function coach where the parent’s like, “They don’t do what the coach tells them to do,” or “They don’t follow through”? We’ve gotta have a role in the process, and that’s an important piece to bring into this as well.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Yeah. So the last question I wanna throw out there before we wrap kind of piggybacks on that. It’s the notion of support for you versus support for your kid, and how do you know when your kid’s ready for support? It’s gonna be a different answer. We haven’t really talked a lot about remediation versus accommodations, and I’m gonna link a podcast episode for that because we do have a good episode on it. But how do you know when your kid’s ready for support? It’s gonna be one thing if the kid’s trying to learn how to read and needs dyslexia support. It’s gonna be another if it’s an ADHD kid with executive function needs, as you talked about earlier. Any advice on how to help parents figure out how they know when their kid’s actually ready to accept the help they’re offering?

Jenny Drennan

We always tell parents that we will only work with the child if we have that child’s buy-in, authentic buy-in. Again, these are your terms, but yes, we need their authentic buy-in to say, “I am willing. I can see the value in this,” because we’re gonna ask them to work hard and try different things. I think for the parent, though, if you’re noticing that your relationship isn’t going well because you’re micromanaging and doing too much for this child, most likely both parties need support there. The parent and the child need support because the parent’s scared to let go, and we feel as if the child can’t do it on their own without that micromanaging. Did I answer that? How do we know if we need support? I think so.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

I think what I heard you say is that you might both need support, and that it’s really important that you’ve got a kid’s buy-in. And if you don’t have their buy-in, then you may need to focus on the parent and the relationship to be able to get the kid to a place where they’re bought in.

Jenny Drennan

Yes, that’s it.

Diane Dempster

A commercial note: buy-in to get you off their back is not real buy-in. Sometimes our kids say yes just because they want Mom or Dad to stop nagging them. You used the language that they will see the value, they get that it’s gonna help them, and they’re gonna engage in the process in a very different way if they see the value and they’re fully invested. Once they start seeing the results, that’s when we start building momentum, right? And that’s really where we start kicking things off.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Yeah. Beautiful. Jenny, it’s so good to be with you, always.

Jenny Drennan

Likewise. Likewise.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Love talking to you. We need to wrap the conversation. Do you have a favorite quote or motto that you wanna end with today?

Jenny Drennan

It’s so simple, but it’s something I always try to practice myself: just stay present. Be in the now.

Diane Dempster

Love that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

Yeah. Stay present and be in the now. I love it. Thank you. Thanks for what you’re doing. Thanks for being part of our community for so long and always being willing to join us, educate families and communities, and bring the coach approach into educational therapy in the way that you do. It’s beautiful to watch, and it’s been beautiful to watch you build this business around it. It’s lovely.

Jenny Drennan

Thank you, guys. Love you guys so much. Thanks for all you’re doing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus

So, to those of you listening, what’s your takeaway from today’s episode? What’s an insight that you have that you weren’t aware of a little while ago? What are you taking away that you wanna bring forward with you into your life this week? What’s your awareness or your A-ha? Next up on the podcast, chances are we’re gonna be talking about parenting emerging adults because our annual Back to On Track Summit is coming up next week, and that’s where our heads are gonna be this summer. If you like what you’re hearing on this podcast, please take a moment to like, follow, or subscribe wherever you’re listening. Leave us a review. Help us get the word out to other families and providers. And as always, thanks, friend, for what you’re doing for yourself and for your kids. At the end of the day, you make an extraordinary difference. Take care, everybody.