Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back to another episode of Parenting with Impact. 

Diane Dempster: It's just us today.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's just us. We got some things we want to talk about, and this is a good place to do that.

Diane Dempster: I'm always thinking about the fact we don't usually say, hey, it's Elaine and Diane Dempster. Hopefully everybody has listened to the intro and know that we're Elaine and Diane.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or they skip it. They'll figure it out. But what we're going to do in this podcast is occasionally we're just going to talk to each other about the issues that are coming up with parents in our community so that you can hear that you're not alone so that you can hear what other parents are dealing with, so they can find where you relate to it. And I'm sure we'll come up with some strategies or talk about what strategies we tend to use to deal with them.

Diane Dempster: And the other thing we were talking about earlier is that one of the questions I love to ask the folks on this podcast is what are parents missing? Because me when I was a parent, it was like this, I knew there was something I was missing. Probably a lot of things I've been missing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: A lot of things. Me too.

Diane Dempster: Right. And so it's like asking experts that question and having that conversations ourselves as experts in what we think parents are missing is a key piece of helping you guys figure out this whole puzzle that you're struggling with in your lives and your families.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Cool. 

Diane Dempster: Today, we want to talk about parenting emerging adult.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Emerging adults the new term of choice.

Diane Dempster: Emerging adults in the new terminology. We were talking to someone this morning. And we've been doing a couple of events around our fall launch. And somebody says, what age parents are your programs for your podcast, your programs, your website, that thing? And it used to be-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It was 2-24 years. No, 40-24. Right. And then this year, it became 3-33 or more. 

Diane Dempster: And I got a client that I talked to this week, who's got a daughter who's living on her own but having a hard time in her job. I think part of what happened this last year, particularly we've been coming out of the woodwork that I think the pandemic-

Diane Dempster: They meaning parents of young adults.

Diane Dempster: Parents of young adults and emerging adults. So I think that part of what's going on is that the pandemic parents, their relationship with their kids is shifting. A lot of them were in college were at home, doing college from home, so they're seeing their kids more frequently, more often. They're seeing their struggles in a different way. What else are you noticing? 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, sometimes we've got a lot of parents of kids in their mid-20s, late 20s, who are maybe living independently, but not financially independent, or maybe not living independently. And it's always this dance of how do I step in without overstepping without controlling? I was talking to my daughter-in-law actually today about there's a difference between reminding and nagging, between nudging forward and nagging. And it has to do with a pause, is what I said to her because we were talking about asking my son for something. I'm like, I've reminded them. I'm giving him a pause. I'll check back in. And it was a really conscious conversation about how do I dance in the conversations with young adults so that I stay collaborative with them and I don't end up becoming that parent that they go, never mind. I don't want to talk to you. 

Diane Dempster: Well, and what's coming from you, as you say this, and I know that you do this as a mom, and I know we coach parents around this all the time, is one of the key differences just in that example between nagging and reminding is permission. It's like, hey, do you mind if I check with you on this, just to make sure that it's been taken care of, is a whole different thing than if you're like stepping out of your world and into their world uninvited for lack of a right word. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. It's like knocking at the door. So important. When you knock on the door, you usually wait for someone to answer it. And we have that tendency with our kids to knock on the door and open and barge in, and that includes their thoughts and their ideas or when they're in the middle of something. 

Diane Dempster: Well, and I know we'll talk about this in a whole other episode, but as parents, we know how to be in charge and direct our kids and tell them what to do. And by the time they're emerging adults, so if they've been off to college or they're working on their own, even if they're living at your house, they want to be autonomous beings. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's the biggest topic. This year is 2021, right? In 2021, we started doing a lot more work with parents of young adults, emerging adults. We started with a four-week coaching group. And then, we actually added a group to our group coaching program for parents of young adults because there was such a huge need. And the biggest theme that's come up is I've been doing this all year, Diane, has been helping parents get their head around the fact that these are independent beings that no longer necessarily want our opinion. Sometimes they do, and there's a way to cultivate so that they do. But very often, there's this disconnect that happens because they've been trying to push away and we've been holding too tight, where we have to respect who they are as an independent being in order to come back to relationship with them from a different angle. 

Diane Dempster: Well, and let's go back to the framework of so what are parents missing. So what parents I'm hearing are missing is that you've got to give them space. You can't just continue to use the same parenting tools that you've always used up until now.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's what you said. Parents don't realize they no longer have permission. We had a certain license or permission, or whatever it is, when we were raising kids up until the age of 18, and they were living at our home or whatever.

Diane Dempster: With some kids.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But we saw it as parents. It's our responsibility to instill our values to educate them to whatever. And for young adults, it's actually no longer our job. We may still want the job, but actually, our kids have to give us the permission to have a new job with them. 

Diane Dempster: And I'm hearing like the voice in the back of my head is going, but they can't live on their own. They aren't independent. They aren't old enough. I mean, most of the parents who are listening to us have complex kids. And actually, we're talking about young adults. So it's 30% behind their peers. So I've got a 36-year-old who might be, if he were 30% younger, would be more like a 26-year-old. It's this sort of thing. So understanding that even though they are of age, their ability to be independent is very different, and that still doesn't give us as parents permission to just step in and continue to direct them because they really are adult.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's the catch is just because they are not yet developmentally where you think they should be, or want them to be, or could be, or whatever, that doesn't mean it's ours to direct or control. It still means that we are still in this dance of helping them learn how to exercise control over their own lives. And our ability to influence that is directly related to the extent to which we are connected with them in a healthy, trusting relationship. 

Diane Dempster: Then you say that right, Elaine, because what happens is the healthy trusting relationship actually falls apart because what parents do not in a bad way, and a well-meaning way we want our kids is we try the old tactics and the old tools. We tell them what to do.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We try to push them away.

Diane Dempster: Yeah. And they're like, mom, stay out of my stuff. Dad, stay out of my stuff. I'm a grown-up. Even if they know that they can't do this, they don't want mom or dad doing it for them or telling them what to do.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because they don't trust that mom or dad won't try to take over, won't try to direct it or control it. And they may know that they are not ready to do it independently, but they want to be able to try, and they want help in doing it. They don't want to be dominated in doing it. 

Diane Dempster: Right. And so we've got parents who don't know how to do anything other than be in charge or let their kids be in charge. So parents know how to direct. Parents know that magic day when our kids do on their own.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Throw their hands up in the air.

Diane Dempster: Good luck. You got this. Yay. But it's that in-between stuff. That's where the magic happens. I mean, when I think about the things we work on with our parents, whether it's parents of young adults or parents of younger kids, it's that how do I collaborate? How do I support? How do I get my kids to ask for help? How do I help my kids become independent? I mean, all are those things but particularly with young adults. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We often laugh that there's a theme of the week when in our coaching and our private coaching and group coaching themes come up. And you just reminded me that this theme of the week because I was doing a lot of work. I had several groups this week with parents of teenagers or young adults was moving from collaboration to support. So when we've got parents of young adults, often, they are either still in director mode. We call that phase one, then we got to move them into collaboration and help them learn how to collaborate with their kid. Sometimes they're still in collaboration, and their kids really ready for more independence. And so this week's theme was a lot of moving from collaboration to support. And what we realized in collaboration, it's about sharing the agenda and asking a lot of questions. In support what I saw happening, and many conversations this week, was the kids saying, I've got this. And the strategy that we were working on with the parents was how do you design the conversation there? My favorite parenting question for moving into support role is how do you want me to handle it when? How do you want me to handle it when you asked me to wake you up in the morning to get to work on time? And then you tell me no, come back? How do you want me to handle it when your meds need to be ordered?

Diane Dempster: And I noticed that you forget.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And the doctor needs you to call, or whatever it is. But when they say I've got it. Instead of saying getting frustrated when they don't do it, design with them around how do you want me to handle it when. And it's this magical question that puts you in the support role. One of the parents I was talking to this week said, yeah, I feel like I'm the roadie, and they're the talent, and that's it. That's where we want to be at that point. Let them be in the lead. They're the talent. And our job is just to say, okay, anything I can do to help? How can I help? What do you want me to do when? 

Diane Dempster: Yeah, so here's what comes up from because I'm going to take us a little bit of a different direction, but you were talking about agenda. And one of the things that happen so often when our kids hit 18 or older is we still have an agenda for them. We still have a vision of what they should do.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yes. But they don't care anymore.

Diane Dempster: They should want to get good grades in college. They should want to get a job that's more than just bagging groceries. They should want to get a job. They should want to do something other than play video games 24 hours a day. We have a vision and an agenda for our kids. And if it's our agenda and not their agenda, we're not even supporting. We're either directing or, at best, collaborating.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: At best, collaborating. And this is a metaphor I've been using a lot this year. If you're holding the reins, they can't. If we're holding the reins of the horse and walking them around the ring, they're never going to be able to walk that horse around the ring themselves because we're holding the reins. So we have to be willing to loosen the reins, that's collaboration, and then start handing over the reins. That's when we move into the support role. And yeah, that means they may take him on some things we may not think are as important, but we haven't heard me figure out what's in it for them.  

Diane Dempster: Right. Or it may not work.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's true. 

Diane Dempster: That's part of it is it's our willingness to let our kids stumble and struggle. And I think about this; we're recording this and back to college time. And so many parents whose kids get to their first semester of college and then just are not successful, particularly in this last year with the pandemic. And it's an expensive experiment. And so parents go, I need to guarantee that my kid won't fail in college or struggle in college. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Fill in the blank.

Diane Dempster: It's how do you set up an affordable experiment because part of this is finding out what these kids can and can't do independently. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. And part of it is, is really following what is important to them and helping them pursue what is important to them. I had several conversations this week where the parents were saying I really want this to happen. And as we got into the conversation, one of them was like, I really want to pay attention to sleep and eating better. Like, okay, how much of a priority is that for your 17-year-old? Well, it's not. So what is important to your 17-year-old? And if we can begin to shift from our agenda to what's important to them. And if sleep hygiene or exercise or food or whatever is important to them, maybe they are part of a sports team. Or maybe they want to be able to wake up in the morning or whatever it is if you can figure out what's in it for them. That's the other favorite question at this stage is what's in it for them? Because they're not going to be motivated to do it because it's good for them or will be good for them as an adult. That's not a good enough motivation for them. 

Diane Dempster: I want to be careful because I don't want to tell them my kids, but I remember really distinctly when my kid, who always had a hard time getting up, and just part of his executive function challenges. When he got a job, it was like, okay, he's now got to figure it out. Now I got to figure it out. And it was like the motivation change, because for him, it's like okay, this is that moment where I've got to figure this out. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There was one mom exactly the same story this week who was saying she could not believe it. Her son was getting up and going to work every day. He had gone and got a job because that was motivating to him. And he wanted to earn money. And so he was getting up and going at work every day. She's like, why can't he do that for school? Well, that's an interesting question. Why can't he do that for school? What's in it for him is really important for her, for them is a really important question to start asking when these kids are starting to become truly independent beings because that's where their motivation lies. Go ahead.

Diane Dempster: And when you say that, though, it's like, what's in it for him? We know what's in it for them. I mean, it's like if they don't get up now, and they don't get good grades in high school or college, they won't able to get into Harvard, or they won't be able to do what they want to be able to do. We're thinking about all these future things that we can connect as an adult. We can see the line. But the reality is, they've got to see it. And it never fails. I was talking to a mom of a middle schooler, sorry, I'm just distracting us. But she was talking about how this girl wanted to get into this college. And she knew she was going to get into this college, and it was her vision. But the mom was trying to use college as motivation for this middle school. I'm like, pretty far away.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Too far.

Diane Dempster: She has a little bit of magical thinking. We haven't talked about that yet. But a lot of times, even young adults have this, oh, I'll be fine. It'll be great. I'll be able to do what I want to be able to do, which is a maturity thing and an executive function thing. And so, as parents, we're battling that on top of everything else.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. Okay, so we've talked about asking permission. We've talked about asking what's in it for them. We've talked about designing and letting them tell us what they need from us, asking them how can we support you? What do you need from me? How do you want me to handle it when something else happens? 

Diane Dempster: We talked about getting out of the role of director and trying to find a more supportive role or champion role.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Collaborator or supporter, like knowing where you are and what your kids ready for you. And a lot of our kids, even as emerging adults, may still need collaboration, but then we really want to be moving into support. Any place that they can take the lead on something, we actually want to let them take the lead and move into a support role and not keep trying to make sure they do it the way we might do it. 

Diane Dempster: The other thing that we haven't talked about yet is relationship. Are you going to do there or where do we go?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I was going there. But start with that.

Diane Dempster: The thing I want to talk about with a relationship because it's come up a lot in my family, and I know it is in your family. It's this our kids become young adults. My relationship with my kids as young adults is so different and so much fun, and so inspiring compared to some of the struggles we had when they were younger. Kids go through phases. And so there's such a great opportunity to have a healthy relationship with these young adults because they are figuring themselves out. And they do have this conquer-the-world attitude. And a lot of times, we get to this place where our relationship is a little bit broken because of the dynamic of us nagging or telling them what to do or whatever else.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Pushing too hard.

Diane Dempster: Pushing too hard, right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: No question.

Diane Dempster: It's chicken in the egg. It's you've got to have a strong relationship in order to help support or collaborate. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So here's the thing. I would say most of the work that I've been doing with parents of young adults this year has been about communication. And what I was saying this to you the other day is, is really yes, we talk about leaning into relationship, and it's so true. And how do you do that? You do that by paying attention to the way you communicate, by shifting the way you communicate, because that's what builds the trust. You have this whole list. There's a whole bunch of stuff around what makes a relationship dynamic, connected. But maybe you can find that list. But what I've found is that it a lot of it comes down to communication. I've been teaching lots of communication skills. Lots of strategies around it. And where we take aim in the young adult group, which is different from a lot of the others, is we're constantly taking aim on what's the conversation you want to have with your child about x or y or z? And really thinking through how do I want to have that conversation so that it's constructive and helpful and positive and trust building? 

Diane Dempster: Say that again because I think that that's really important. [inaudible]

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You say what I said because I know what I said.

Diane Dempster: No, it's not just about the conversation you want to have with your kid. It's this you've got to take that extra step and say, okay, this is what I want to say to my kid.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But now, how do I do that?

Diane Dempster: Right now. And I've got to take a minute and say, how do I want to do that? We talk about the conversation, about the conversation, about the conversation,  about breadcrumbing conversations. Is this one big giant conversation, or is this something I need to introduce and get permission to talk about or talk about over time in several five-minute increments? You really got to think strategically about how to have conversations with these kids and not just plow in and start a conversation about whatever it is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I was talking to one couple this week. And that's what I was saying is like, this is a kid who will always run away when you say, we've got to talk about something.

Diane Dempster: I have had men in my life who did the same things to me. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Diane mentioned it. We call it breadcrumb conversations when you drop little things. So there was one couple I was talking a woman whose kid was going off to college. And the conversation was, yes, you need to have this conversation. You have ten days in which this can happen. What are the pieces of it? The first part of the conversation was to say, hey, this is a conversation we need to have. I know you may not want to. I don't want to either, but we need to do it. When's a good time? Putting the control back in the kid's play giving them a sense of ownership of it? Because as soon as they say, okay, well, how about four o'clock on Sunday. They've actually taken some ownership. So anything we can do to give them a little bit more control and to give them a sense of stepping in and buying into the conversation before you even get to the conversation?

Diane Dempster: And what's coming up for me, as you're saying, is two things. One is as parents, a lot of times, we have this huge sense of urgency. It's like, oh my gosh. Either because we're panicked and we're catastrophizing. And we're worried that if we don't fix this now, that something terrible is going to happen, or we're afraid we'll forget. It's those sort of thing, or we're afraid that if I asked my kid if they want to have the conversation, they're going to say no. And then it's like, what am I going to do? And here's what I would tell you is that if you're afraid that your kid is going to say no.  

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They probably are.

Diane Dempster: They probably are. And instead of saying, do you want to have this conversation? You say, this conversation is important, and we need to have it, which is more of a directive thing, and I want to do it on your terms. When can we make this happen?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. Or what do you need to think about before we do? This comes up in young adult parenting a lot, too. We've been thinking about something for a long time. We haven't been saying anything for weeks or months. And then we spring it on our kids as if they've been thinking about it for months. It never crossed their mind. So all of a sudden, we're coming to it. They feel like they have to have an answer or response right now. We've got all of these grandiose ideas in our head, and they're pushing back and defending because they feel like they've been pushed against a wall. So we have to really take our time to have conversations and not feel like it's one conversation and there's only one shot and make sure they're not long, detailed. Avoid that tendency to say we've got to talk. And the other thing is to throw out philosophical questions to ponder. Like, there was one couple this week, it was like, this would be a good topic to bring up at the dinner table. Don't talk about her. Just talk about it. And I honestly can't even remember what it was. But it was something about I read this thing, or I heard this thing that someone else is doing. What do you think about that? And sometimes it's just raising our kid's awareness to these topics before we even bringing to them.

Diane Dempster: Without the pressure on them. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly. 

Diane Dempster: And we got to watch our time, Elaine. So let people know because we've been dancing around and talking about our programs for young adults. If you are a parent of a young adult and you want some support, we would love to talk to you about Sanity School and our young adult's group program, so please reach out at Impact Parents.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Let me clarify it's not a young adult group program. It's a group coaching program for parents of young adults. [inaudible] Let me be really, really clear. But if you've done Sanity School, then the young adults' group, parents group in our group coaching program, which is PSS. It's a great fit. If you haven't done Sanity School yet, that's always the place I start. And we have some other resources and things that we do as well. We have a coach on our team who does a lot of work with parents of young adults as well. She's got a 28-year-old young adult. So there's lots of ways to get support. And best bet is to probably to sign up for Sanity School or a Sanity session. What do you think, Di?

Diane Dempster: Well, if they want to talk more about whether or not getting support for yourself as a parent is a good fit, then you can always schedule a time at sanitysession.com to talk to one of us.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Okay. So how do we want to wrap today because this is a new realm for us? 

Diane Dempster: I know. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Do you have a motto from this?

Diane Dempster: Do you have a motto from this? So the quote that I love around young adults is ask don't tell. It's a really simple language shift, particularly powerful when you're working with young adults to say like you were saying, how do I how should I handle it when? Or what do you think about it? This being in a place where you're interested in their opinion rather than starting with sharing yours can be really great.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. So if you hear yourself saying I was trying to tell her. Anything that lets you know you're really trying to convince them of something that's a good sign that you would want to shift into the asking because, let's say, after 18, it's not our job to tell them anything without their permission or engagement or enrollment in some way. Hard but true.

Diane Dempster: Hard but true. What's your motto or theme here?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What's in it for them? It is so essential that we go that we approach young adults with the lens of what life look like from their lens, not from ours. We were you and I were interviewing in another podcast this week. And I thought the irony of it was so beautiful. Was it Dr. Laura I think we were talking to? She was saying, yeah, parents. You've just got to be the grown-up. And the irony is the one time that we have the hardest time being the grown-up is when we're upset that our kids aren't acting grown-up enough. So let's look through their lens and ask what's in it for them. 

Diane Dempster: Great conversation today.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, I enjoyed this. We should do this more. Thanks for tuning in and listening and being with us and doing what you're doing, and making the difference you're making in your lives in your world. It does make a difference. Take care, everyone.

 

Helpful Links:

-Parent Expectations: 2 Steps to Success 

-Parenting is Leadership Guide