Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to another conversation on the Parenting with Impact podcast. We're so excited to have you with us today.

Diane Dempster: It's just the two of us today.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And we’re going to have a really interesting conversation, as we always do when we give ourselves the space for it. Today, we’re going to talk about parents and the recommended treatments. What were you going to say?

Diane Dempster: No, I was just going to say that this topic came out of a bit of a rant. We've been feeling frustrated, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: The best topics often do.

Diane Dempster: Exactly. It's been tough watching parents struggle, watching them not get the help they need, and trying to talk to them about getting that help. It’s just all of this stuff, and sometimes it feels like we’re preaching to the choir, and sometimes it feels like there’s no one in the congregation.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Hello.

Diane Dempster: Are you there?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, I’m here. No, it’s true. Because, look, we’ve been doing this for a long time, right? We have our own kids, who are now young adults, and we’ve seen the benefit. We’ve seen the impact.

We know, from the thousands of people we work with, what a difference it makes when we, as parents, start with ourselves. We always say, “The change you want for your child starts with you.” And that’s the truth.

Diane Dempster: Exactly, and we say that at every presentation we do lately. It’s just…

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And that’s what’s so hard for parents to grasp.

Diane Dempster: "Start with you." But my child is the one who’s not doing well. My child is the one with the diagnosis.

Diane Dempster: Exactly. Not me. But the change you want starts with you. So why does the change they want start with them, Elaine?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, let’s look at it from a procedural perspective, from a process perspective for a minute, right? The protocol, when you have a child with any kind of complex issue—whether it’s ADHD, attention issues, anxiety, depression, or autism—all the things that come with kids who are struggling with some area of executive function, basically…

Diane Dempster: So, even kids with ADHD and especially those with…

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Especially, right? So when you have kids who are struggling with executive function, the protocol I’m about to tell you about comes from the realm of ADHD, but it really applies to any child with executive functioning challenges.

The recommended treatment for that child is for the parent to receive parent training, support, and reinforcement in a community. So, if the child is under age six, the number one recommended treatment is for the parent to get training—parent behavioral modification training.

Diane Dempster: Can we back up for a second? Because…

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: We use the term “parent training,” but the world often uses the term “behavior therapy.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. Actually, I was interviewing Carolyn Parcells the other day, and we were talking about how behavior modification training, behavior modification therapy, behavior management training, and behavior therapy—all of those terms essentially mean the same thing.

Diane Dempster: And the language we use is historical, right? In our world, a lot of times, the language we use is outdated—terms that were common 20 years ago but haven't evolved since then.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It hasn't changed.

Diane Dempster: Exactly. And so the terminology I see most frequently is something called “behavior therapy.” But behavior therapy doesn’t actually mean sending your kid off to work with a therapist—though we could do an episode on when that is appropriate and how it can help.

That’s really not what the recommended treatment is when we're talking about executive function challenges. What you're describing, Elaine, is behavior training, and that includes a structured model for training parents.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right, and here's what's involved in that. Okay, this is a great place to slow down a bit. What this means is that a parent should receive a certain amount of training that provides them with tools, shifts their expectations, and helps them set realistic goals. It gives them structure for how to create rewards, accountability, and consequences appropriately.

This process involves the parent practicing these techniques and receiving feedback from a professional, all within a community of their peers, so they can learn from each other and understand what is and isn’t typical for their non-neurotypical child.

So when we talk about behavior training, it’s not about just listening to a webinar or reading articles—it’s about receiving specific tools and training, and then practicing them in an environment where they can reinforce what they've learned.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I guess the thing that I would add is that, because we understand what behavior training is, and we know the components and the recommended treatment, we also know that even providers aren’t always on the same page.

We did some research a couple of summers ago, and less than a third of parents with a child diagnosed with a condition had a provider who said, “Hey, parent, go get some training for yourself.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. It wasn’t offered.

Diane Dempster: Exactly, it wasn’t offered.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And there are a lot of good reasons for that. Sometimes, providers don’t know where to send parents. Before COVID, people thought it had to be in person. Sometimes, they misunderstand and think behavior therapy means just putting the child in therapy. There are a lot of reasons why it doesn’t happen.

But across the board, less than 30% of parents are getting referrals to get support for themselves. Often, they’re just given information—websites, resources—and that’s helpful, but what we've learned in this field is that information alone isn’t enough.

Diane Dempster: And I would even say that the protocol you just described—practice and all those components—still isn’t enough. I mean, we have a behavior training program for parents called Sanity School—you hear us talk about it all the time.

It’s a great starting point, it includes all those components. But what we find over and over again is that it’s still not enough. Parents need more.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right.

Diane Dempster: They need help integrating the training, personalizing it, and making it sustainable. That’s why everything we do has a coaching component. Coaching is really about helping people make lasting change in their lives.

What we’re talking about here is sustainable change—parents making changes in the environment so that the kids can change their behaviors.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because change takes time. I mean, the truth is, the change you want for your child, yes, it starts with you, but it’s going to take time. It took you however many years to get to where you are now, and it’s going to take time to turn the ship around, to shift things in the direction you want them to go.

And that’s just the reality of the situation. We’re dealing with complex kids, and that makes things more complicated. They’re not just going to fall in line because we say so.

Diane Dempster: Well, let’s go back to that. I mean, I want to talk about a lot of things. I want to talk about why parents aren’t getting help. Even that 30% who do get recommendations—many are resistant to actually seeking help. We can talk about that. But let’s go back to why it’s so important for parents to be part of the process.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Should we finish talking about recommended treatment first?

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, let’s go back because we kind of got sidetracked there. So, real quickly: for children under six, the recommended treatment is parent training and support—programs like Sanity School or other similar programs, like Incredible Years and a couple of others. For ages 6 to 12, if you have a child, specifically with ADHD, the recommendation is medication.

But I’d also say that with anxiety or depression, you’d likely see medication as the first-line treatment too. So, for this age group, it’s a combination of medication plus parent training, support, and intervention. From ages 12 to 18, the first-line treatment is medication, and parent training becomes optional. However, what we’ve learned, Diane, is that from ages 12 to 34…

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s probably more important than ever for parents to be involved because how we communicate with our kids sets the stage for their success—or lack of success.

So, even though parent involvement is part of the recommended treatment, and may not be the first line of defense for older kids, our experience has shown that it makes a profound difference when the parent is able to change their approach and begin parenting in a more supportive and empowering way.

Diane Dempster: Well, yeah, I do. And I think I keep going back to the "why." Right? Because there are two parts to this. A lot of times, parents think, “Okay, my child has ADHD, I just need medication and that’ll fix it.”

But the reality is, this is a child with an executive function challenge or deficit—whatever language you want to use—and there is no medication on this planet that will fix that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. No medication is going to help your child organize their backpack.

Diane Dempster: No, it's not. I had a conversation with a parent today, and they had this "Aha" moment. Their 16-year-old daughter, who’s religiously taking her ADHD medication and acknowledges her ADHD—which isn’t always the case with 16-year-olds—had this realization: She thought that if she just took the pill, her ADHD would be "fixed."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, and then the meds would just do it.

Diane Dempster: Right. The medication does help her focus better, but she’s still a kid with executive function challenges. And that doesn’t change just because she’s taking the medication. What do you do when, even while taking the pill, your backpack is still a mess?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? Well, because the whole point of behavior therapy training, as part of the treatment, is that it’s about rounding the corners to teach kids the skills they need—helping them learn to manage by reducing some of the symptoms, so they can put systems in place for themselves or be gentle with themselves.

I was doing a presentation earlier in 2022 at Apsara, and one of the things I mentioned is that if you’re doing medication protocol treatment without behavior management, it’s an incomplete approach. You can’t just deal with these issues and expect them to go away. You don’t age out of executive function challenges. Yes, they can improve, but they aren’t likely to be “fixed.”

They are things we need to help our kids learn to manage. And that’s it—you have to help your kids learn to manage the way their brains are wired.

Diane Dempster: Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: The brain is amazing. It’s pretty incredible, but it doesn’t always adhere to the way the world works.

Diane Dempster: Well, and this is the challenge that most of us face, especially if we have our own neurodiversity. The way we do things—and the strategies that work for us—might not be the same things that work for our kids. So, it’s not just about telling them what to do or giving them the tools to do it.

It’s really about helping them understand their brain. We’re talking about life skills here, not just getting the homework done or cleaning their room. It’s really about helping them recognize: “Here are the things my brain is good at, and here are the things that are hard for my brain.

How can I accommodate for that? How can I optimize it? How do I live and thrive with the brain that I have?” Instead of trying to fit a round peg into a square hole—or wait, is it a square peg into a round hole? I’m not sure...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Either way, it’s not likely to work.

laine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, so where are we in this?

Diane Dempster: We were talking about recommended treatment. I want you to talk a little bit about the parent’s role and why that’s so important in this process, because I don’t think that’s always clear.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, I had this "Aha" moment when I was doing a presentation for Apsara. We know that parents are part of the recommended treatment, but why? Like, why is this so important? And what I realized is, when we look at a kid’s success, one of the primary things we focus on is creating an accommodated environment at school, right?

We want to ensure they have the right accommodations, that they’re in the right school, with the right teacher—basically, setting them up for success in the school environment. Well, the same is true at home. If we can teach parents to understand what’s going on with their kids, we can help them set up an appropriate home environment—one that supports their child’s success at the “point of performance,” where the challenges are taking place.

So, one key reason is that we, as parents, want to set them up to learn how to manage themselves successfully.

Diane Dempster: We need something cute to call it—like a 504 or an IEP at home. We could coin a new term for it, but these kids need a 504 or an IEP at home, just like they have at school.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that idea. And it’s important because we, as parents, are the closest to the situation. We know our kids best. We know what’s going to cause upsets, what the problems will be tomorrow, the next day, and beyond.

It’s not a surprise what the challenges are. So, if we can start to understand that, we can learn to navigate it and help our kids learn to manage it. One of the comments I received from a client while I was putting this presentation together was that what she gained most from working with us was that it helped her pull all the pieces together.

She could then help her daughter understand herself and begin to learn how to manage herself. Because when we, as parents, ask, “Why are you doing this?”—well, if we don’t know, how can we expect the kids to understand? They don’t know either.

Diane Dempster: Yeah. How many parents say, “Why can’t you just…?” They don’t understand why their kids can’t just do something.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We have to focus on that.

Diane Dempster: Why it’s hard for them, right? It’s just that by definition, it is hard for them. So, understanding why that’s the case is important. So, when we talk about accommodations at the point of performance—what else?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, putting all the pieces together and creating an environment of support are key. A few other things: it helps parents learn to cope and stay calm when things are melting down.

When we can stay calm, we create an environment of calm, and that’s going to set everyone up for a better outcome. Some of this is about helping us manage our own emotional reactivity, which is hard.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It also helps us learn to take care of ourselves and manage our own emotions. One thing I noticed while doing this presentation is that a lot of us as parents are in what I’d call “psychic pain.”

We’re watching our kids struggle, and it’s hard to see them hurt. It breaks our hearts, and we don’t know how to help them. So, part of getting support is about learning how to be with them, to help them cope with whatever they’re facing—whether it’s a skinned knee or something else.

Diane Dempster: Whatever it is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: This, in the mental health realm, is a little more complicated, right? But we have to bear witness to this with them and support them through it. To do that, we need support ourselves so that we can be that presence for them.

Diane Dempster: Well, and the complicating factor is the genetics. How many of us are dealing with similar neurodiversity to our kids? Or, we're just so stressed and overwhelmed by trying to help these kids navigate and manage it, that it creates its own neurodiversity?

I mean, being overwhelmed—I've always said that the overwhelmed single mom, divorced mom, or menopausal mom look a lot like ADHD. It’s kind of the same thing, right? So, it’s hard stuff, and we, as parents, need help.

But wait—parents aren’t looking for help. That’s the thing. You think, “Why wouldn’t they?” This is hard stuff, but people aren’t going, “Hey, I need help with this.” There’s a lot of stigma.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because we feel guilt and shame about it. But before we go there, let me share a couple of other thoughts I have. So why parents? The goal here is to empower kids to take ownership and become more independent.

And we, as parents, are the ones in a position to help them gradually take on more independence. Learning how to do that is incredibly powerful. There’s also another piece that we don’t talk about much, but I think it’s super important. We are our kids’ medical advocates. We’re the ones who report to the physicians and providers in their lives.

When we understand what's really going on with our kids—where the glitches are, where the challenges are, and what we’ve already tried that didn’t work—we can provide information to their providers. This gives them a lot more to work with than if we’re operating in isolation, thinking we’re the only parent in the world who’s ever dealt with this.

Diane Dempster: What pops into my mind as you're saying that is the article we read about the inaccuracy in teen reporting regarding whether ADHD meds work or not. It’s amazing to me how little these kids understand about whether the ADHD meds are working.

You ask the teacher, you ask the parents, and they’ll say, “Yeah, you can clearly see the difference when they’re on their meds and when they’re off.” But the kids will say, “I don’t know, whatever, I don’t think it works, or I’m not sure if it works.”

We have the objectivity to see, observe, and share in a very different way because our kids’ stigma, shame, and stories often get in the way of their ability to accurately report what’s going on at the performance level. I mean, it’s hard stuff to report on.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It is, and that's where we get stuck. There’s so much shame and stigma around it. We feel embarrassed. We don’t want this to be the problem, and we look at the kid down the street, or the sister-in-law, or the niece or nephew.

We think, “I want my kid to be just like that.” So, we don’t want to admit that it’s a problem. We feel like we should know how to handle it as parents because parenting should be natural and normal, right? Everyone else seems to be able to do it.

Diane Dempster: Exactly, everybody else can do it. And one of the recurring themes we hear in our community all the time is that people who are facing these challenges understand it, but people who are not in the same situation have no idea.

Remember, we’re talking about about 20% of the population, right? So, 80% of the time when you bring this up to another parent, they’ll say things like, “Just be more strict,” or “You’re making things up,” or, “Oh, it’s not that bad.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: "You just need more discipline."

Diane Dempster: Yeah, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: People often say it’s the kid’s fault, or it’s the parent’s fault. I have to tell you, Diane, after we read The Essential Guide to Raising Complex Kids, I did a lot of interviews. And people kept asking, "Can you define complex kids?"

And what I tended to say was, “If you have a complex kid, you know exactly what I mean. You don’t need me to define it.” But, in general, it’s a kid who struggles with life, learning, or both.

Diane Dempster: Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? But for people who aren’t in this world all the time—and I think for many of us as parents, even when we are in this world, we still feel alone—one of the beautiful things about group coaching and programs like Sanity School is that for the first time, parents feel like, "You're telling me what’s happening in my house. You weren’t even here."

Diane Dempster: You weren’t here, but you know it. Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly. And that sense of knowing that you’re not alone, and part of what parent involvement does is it helps normalize behaviors that are not typical for neurotypical kids.

Diane Dempster: Which gives us permission to say, "Wow, I should do something about this."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or, "I can do something differently."

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? It's like, "I have to handle this differently, because this is different from what happens in neurotypical homes."

Diane Dempster: And so, parents aren't getting set on what's recommended as treatment. Even if they are, there's resistance to getting help, because there's shame involved.

There's this sense that, "I should be able to do it myself." There's the thought that, "It's my kid with the problem. My kid has the diagnosis. Why do I need help?" Well, we've talked about that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or, "If I've got a penny to spend, or one more moment to spare, I'm going to spend it on my kid." There's this notion that we should spend it all on our kids.

And so, not only are we giving ourselves away and exhausting ourselves, but we're not recognizing that by paying attention to ourselves, we are actually helping our kids, because we are the ones setting the environment.

Diane Dempster: Well, here's what I would say, and I've been talking to a lot of parents lately. They say, "I need a tutor for my kid, I need an executive function coach for my kid, I need this special school for my kid." I'm not saying that your kids don't sometimes need that, but 80% of the time, these kids are not asking for help.

They're not saying, "I'm struggling, please help me." What they really need is someone to coach them and guide them into a place where they’re ready to get help, which is something that only a parent can do in a very different way than anyone else can.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Well, the other thing I think parents resist is help because they're looking for a magic bullet. That's one of the things our research showed—they just want something to fix it. There's a lack of understanding about how nuanced and complicated creating change really is.

I was talking to a mom yesterday who said her husband had just thrown his hands up; he was done and didn’t want to try anymore. He just wanted somebody else to fix it. And that happens.

The conversation I had with her was, it only takes one parent to make a shift, right? Even if he's given up, that doesn't mean you have to give up. You can still create the change you want.

Diane Dempster: Well, I know that a lot of parents get stuck in information overload. I think back to myself, 15 years ago, when I was that mom on the internet, looking for that one article that no one else had seen but that was going to fix everything. Right?

It just has to be out there. There has to be some solution, something I'm missing. So, I'd listen to one more podcast, or read one more article.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yesterday on our podcast...

Diane Dempster: The podcast... And it’s not enough—get some help. Right? That’s really the punchline here: get some help for yourself. I think the other thing I would say is that parents, the ones I've talked to lately, wait way too long.

The parents I’ve been speaking with in the last year, who are really struggling, it’s like their house is on fire. They're in such crisis. Their kids have failed 17 classes, or are completely checked out of school, or the kids are getting physical and violent with their emotional intensity.

All of these really, really difficult situations. I look at them and think, "Wow, this is super hard." And I want parents to get help when it’s a little less hard.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, why should we wait until they’re desperate to offer help? This was another thing I said in that episode conversation. Why is it that every conversation I have with a new parent—and you probably do too—I hear the word “desperate”?

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: "I’m desperate. I don’t know what else to do. I’ve tried everything. Nothing works." All of that language. And this is true for parents of kids who are eight, 18, or 28. Right? It doesn’t matter what age; by the time parents come to us, they already feel spent and exhausted, a lot of the time.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I think that's true. Going back to the question about why providers aren’t talking about behavior training for parents, the story a lot of providers tell them is, "Well, medication will get them pretty far, and it’s easy."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Good enough.

Diane Dempster: So it’s good enough, right? It’s sort of like a Band-Aid.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They don’t want to embarrass the parents. I’ve had providers say to me, "I don’t want to offend the parent by offering parent training." Truly.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Really. But if you wait until it’s... and I had one provider say to me, "Well, when they’re really complicated, that’s when I send them to you." It’s like, why are you waiting until they’re desperate, until relationships are fractured? It just feels counterintuitive somehow.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You were going to say something.

Diane Dempster: No, I was going to say something about parents in crisis. I had this mom the other day whose kid was really having some physical reactions. I mean, the word she used was "violence." The kid was having meltdowns so severe that he was hitting siblings and everything else.

But she was doing some work and making enormous progress on handling the meltdowns. She said, "Okay, I’m alright now." It was like, she was in a place of desperation and then got to a point where she could take a breath and say, "Okay, I’ve got a breath. My kid’s not punching his sister anymore."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And I’m like, "What will be? That’s not it?"

Diane Dempster: Yeah, there’s so many things. Okay, so what do we want to work on next? It’s like, "I’m fine," right? It's sort of like that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Are you really fine?

Diane Dempster: Is there something else we could work on here? Like maybe hanging up the towel, or brushing teeth, or helping out around the house, or getting homework turned in, or any of those other things.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What you’re speaking to is the difference between being reactive and proactive. And I think if you go back to our beginnings, our humble beginnings with Impact ADHD, our first tagline was "Enjoy the ride."

And we used to say, in tandem, "We can help you enjoy the ride." Very cute. But after doing some research, some focus groups, we changed the tagline to "Helping parents help kids," because so many parents thought that "enjoy the ride" was just about getting by.

Diane Dempster: It’s not. Now, we can't just muddle through until our kids get to be 21 or 22, and they’re off to college, and it’s somebody else’s problem. Then I can drink margaritas on the beach, I mean...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It just doesn’t quite work that way.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: As parents of young adults, I am here to tell you...

Diane Dempster: It doesn't work. I was just drinking margaritas on the beach with my 22-year-old the other day.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, it was a good thing to do. But the point of that... to wrap this up, because we really need to wrap this conversation... What was the point of that trip?

Diane Dempster: But the point of this is: don't wait until you're in crisis.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Got it. Alright.

Diane Dempster: So, going back to the whole story: parents don’t even always know what the recommended treatment is. Sometimes the providers they’re referred to don’t know either.

We talked about why it’s important because you, as a parent, are best equipped to help these kids. You’re the one who can report better about what's going on and make changes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Their path for success.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, to change their behavior at the point of performance, to help them become increasingly more independent and successful as they get older. And why we resist is logical. We get it. I mean, there’s so much in this—it’s a lot.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: We get it, we're human, and we want you all to get over it. We want...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It to be different. Diane, do you remember the "Power of the Parent" proclamation we did in the early years? We should take that and put it in the show notes somehow.

Diane Dempster: Okay, I think that’s a good idea.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because when we first started, our message was that kids need help to handle chronic conditions, and parents need help to understand how to help their kids manage those chronic conditions. Bottom line.

And that’s what we’re saying: your kids do need help, and they need not just help from other professionals and experts. They need help from you to create an environment that supports them in learning to understand themselves.

That’s where we can help you—or others can. There are other professionals who do this too. We’re not saying you have to use us, but we are saying, if you can’t get help here, then get help somewhere.

Diane Dempster: And the point—let's go back to the bottom line—the change you want to see starts with you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So that may be our new tagline. We’re not rebranding, I promise.

Diane Dempster: No. Okay, thanks for being here. Thanks, Elaine. Always good.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Always amazing. And to those of you tuning in, thanks for what you’re doing for yourself and for your kids. Remember, the change you want for you and for your kids starts with you.

Diane Dempster: At the end of the day, you make all the difference. Thanks, everybody.