Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody, to another conversation on the Parenting with Impact podcast. Diana and I are here today, talking about the latest topics that are coming up. I love these opportunities to just riff on the themes that emerge, especially since we've been doing this for over a dozen years now. We always notice certain recurring themes.

Diana Dempster: Yeah, it's really funny. One of those underlying themes that happens all the time is that we focus so much on what's going on with our kids, but what ends up happening is that because of what's going on with them, we end up carrying some heaviness.

We get stressed out, we feel overwhelmed, and we experience all kinds of emotions and feelings that come up for us.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But it means that this whole parenting thing might actually be about the parent, to some extent.

Diana Dempster: Well, I was laughing because before we started, I was talking to a client this morning. I've been working with her for a couple of years, and it was one of those moments where she said, "Oh wait, this is about me, isn't it?" And I was like, "Yes, it feels that way, doesn't it?" It's not that it took her that long to realize it, but it was this moment of, "Oh wait, maybe this isn't about them.

Maybe it's about me, or maybe I need to take care of myself first so I can re-engage with my kids." I'm teaching a group right now, and we're talking exactly about this. We want to be engaged in problem-solving and figuring out all the complexities of what's going on with our kids.

But if we're stressed, overwhelmed, dysregulated, frustrated, or whatever it is we're experiencing, it's like the kids' brains are offline. I guess it’s the same when it comes to the parent's brain being offline, right? You're not able to engage at the same level when you're feeling stressed, overwhelmed, guilty, or dealing with perfectionism.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's interesting. When I was doing a podcast episode with Aaron Dodini—you weren't there—I was asking him about the value of adult diagnoses.

One of the things he said was this idea that it's not just about modeling; kids feel better when they see their parents as human. If we're dysregulated, they feel that too.

Diana Dempster: Oh yeah, well, a lot of times our kids feel our dysregulation more than we do. I remember this from when I had three kids, right? I remember so distinctly—this is a funny story, I don’t even know if I’ve told you this.

I was watching home videos from about 15-20 years ago, and watching myself in the video, I thought, "Who is that woman?" I could tell just from watching myself how stressed out I was and how much I was trying to hold it together.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You were holding it together.

Diana Dempster: Oh yeah, I was in this sort of controlled chaos mode, but I was working hard to try to control the chaos, right? That’s how we get because this stuff is hard. Let’s acknowledge that sometimes it’s hard to parent complex kids, and part of that is how we’re being.

We’ve always said that it’s not just about what we’re doing—it’s how we’re being while we’re doing it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? Let’s break it down. Okay, so there’s guilt, overwhelm, mental load, and emotional intensity, which can lead to either offensive or defensive approaches. Right? We can either shut down, or we can get aggressive.

Diana Dempster: Well, actually, we could even flip it the other way around, right? This is what I was doing with this client. When we teach our dysregulation model—our trigger model—we talk about aware, alert, and alarm, okay?

And what I want to focus on is the alarm stage, where you lose it and either have to run away or get aggressive, or you come back and apologize, whatever you do, right? But I want to talk about the stage before that, where your emotions and your logical brain, your problem-solving brain, are competing. Your executive function and your emotions are fighting for space in your brain.

This happens because you're so overwhelmed or stressed, or you're carrying a lot of stuff—like guilt or, as you mentioned, perfectionism—and all these emotionally charged things that are going on.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We used to call that emotional intensity. That was the term we used for years.

Diana Dempster: Right, well, emotional intensity doesn’t just have to be yelling. I think that’s the important piece. This client I was talking to said, "I use the word dysregulated, and I'm only about a three in terms of being dysregulated."

And I asked her, "Well, how stressed are you?" She said, "Well, I'm about a nine on the stress scale." I said, "Okay, so stress is at a nine—that's dysregulated." If we see dysregulation as only how much we’re yelling or how reactive we are, then we limit ourselves to thinking we’re only dysregulated when we’re over the top.

But really, you’re dysregulated when you’re off balance. I mean, I know there are mornings when I’m dysregulated just waiting for my coffee to brew because it’s already been a morning, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, so sometimes we internalize, right? Maybe we shut down, maybe we retreat inside, maybe we beat ourselves up, maybe we avoid, or maybe we start engaging in unhealthy behaviors.

We might start stress eating, like eating more chips, or maybe we start drinking more than we’d like to. There are all kinds of ways we don’t aggressively react to the feelings of stress and overwhelm. Then there’s the other way we react, which is more visible: the explosions, the yelling, the micromanaging, the nagging, the blaming.

Diane Dempster: Blaming, like, "It’s your fault, I can’t believe they did that!" It’s like I always say, the controller in your head is either saying, "I have to do this, I’m the only one who can do it, and I have to do it right now," or it’s saying, "It’s all their fault, they should be doing this, why don’t they ever do anything?"

So, it’s either we’re pointing the finger at ourselves or pointing the finger at someone else, right? Either way, the invitation is to notice. Oh wait, I’m a little off balance, I’m irritated.

Whatever word you want to use—if "dysregulated" feels too strong, you could use "off balance" or "agitated" or, I don’t know. What word do you use, Elaine?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, "off" is probably the word I use.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, I’m feeling off.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: For me, it’s often that I’m exhausted, I’m tired, I’m spent, right? There’s this drained energy feeling that I get. And what I’m realizing as I listen to you is that there are really two different conversations: one is about what’s leading to this feeling, and the other is about how I want to handle it.

Diane Dempster: Well, there’s also one in the middle, which is: how do I even know that it’s there? Right? I was on the phone with another client the other day, and we were talking about black-and-white thinking—the kind of right/wrong, good/bad thinking.

She realized, "Oh wait, when I get into black-and-white thinking, that’s a great indication that I’m stressed out."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s her sign.

Diane Dempster: Exactly, that’s her tell. When we teach, we talk about noticing your tells—like, are you running your hands through your hair? Are you wringing your fingers? Do you feel the hair on your neck stand up? Is your heart racing? What is your tell?

And again, you may never get to the point of completely losing it, but you may still be "off." So, first is noticing that you’re off. Then, there are two parts: prevention and management. That’s where you were going.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and another thing I was just thinking about—I was with a group last week in one of the coaching groups for parents of teens, and we were talking about how sometimes we think our kids go from zero to 100 in a couple of seconds.

But really, what’s happening is that they’re already at an 80. They’re constantly in this somewhat triggered state, so going from 80 to 100 happens much faster. We don’t always realize they’re walking around in this triggered state. And what we’re speaking to here, Diane, is that we don’t realize we’re walking around in a triggered state too.

Diane Dempster: So how do you begin to notice? I think there are a couple of ways, like even just doing a temperature check, right? I think about when little kids have those face charts—with the smiley face, the neutral face, the frowny face, and the angry face.

You could create a habit where, every time you go to the bathroom, or you set an alarm once an hour, you stop and ask yourself, “How am I feeling right now? Really, how am I feeling, really?”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Kegels in the stop signs, right? When I was so it's like, check in with ourselves and usually there is a physiological tell.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Usually, there’s something in the body—whether it’s a racing heart, feeling unsettled or agitated, or needing to move for those of us with hyperactivity.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, and just even noticing that. You mentioned earlier about feeling "off." I think the other side of it, for many of us, is noticing when we’re really… Oh, numb, right? Or, I was going to go the other direction—when you’re truly relaxed.

So many of us don’t know what real calm feels like. And when I use the word "calm," I don’t just mean "I’m not yelling." Think about it for a moment—feel it in your body. Imagine yourself at the beach, listening to the waves—or whatever your relaxing place is.

I say that because I’m getting ready to go on vacation to the beach and be by the waves. Or imagine that moment just before bed when you’re lying there, completely relaxed, and your body feels at ease.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Knowing what calm feels like for you is such an essential step in recognizing when you’re not feeling calm.

Diane Dempster: When you’re not feeling it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And I suspect there are a lot of parents listening to this who are thinking, "I never feel that way."

Diane Dempster: Right, or, "I haven’t felt that way. My kid’s seven, and I haven’t felt that way in many years." Yeah, that may be true.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You all make that wrong.

Diane Dempster: Let’s make it true.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, that may be true. And that’s a great indication that it’s really important to figure out what it’s going to take to put your oxygen mask on.

Diane Dempster: Well, I remember there were two things that I really amplified when my kids were little. One was getting to go to the grocery store by myself. I know that sounds really weird because going to the grocery store may not be fun for you, but going to the grocery store was fun for me.

And the other one was picking the music in the car because I wasn’t competing with the kids. Like, if I got to pick my song and they weren’t in the car, I could crank up my music, I could sing, and I didn’t have to worry about them.

So, being in the car by myself and being in the grocery store by myself were those moments where I was like, "Okay, wait—this is just me, nobody else."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: For me, it was going to the bathroom by myself and turning to face the table when I sat down to eat a meal. It wasn’t eating the meal all catawampus so that I could jump up at any moment, but knowing that I could sit and eat this meal—that was a biggie for me.

So, there’s something here about really starting to notice when you’re “on,” when you’re calm, or when you’re “off.” And we’re talking about real calm, not fake calm.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And really paying attention to how you’re feeling. How are you checking in with yourself? Yeah. Let’s take a quick break, and when we come back, we’ll continue.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus (after the break): Okay, welcome back, everybody. We are talking about—well, I’m not sure exactly what we’re going to call this yet—but we’re talking about when our brains are offline, online, or overwhelmed.

Diane Dempster: And emotions competing with being “off” when you feel off as a parent.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. So, we’ve talked about noticing when you’re feeling off. Now, we want to take a look at what happens before that and how you want to handle it.

Diane Dempster: Right? Yep. So, once you’ve gotten started—one of the tools we teach in Sanity School, which is our parent training program, is using a trigger journal. This would be a great time to use it. It’s about reflecting during the day: What were the things that got you agitated? When were you agitated? Because then, you can start to see, “What was it that had me off?”

For example, what had me off might have been that I was thinking all day about the fact that tonight is going to be X. Or, I was feeling guilty all day because I rushed my kid out the door and forgot to give her a hug, right? It’s about starting to notice not just when you feel that way, but what the...what do you call them? Antecedents! No, antecedents are the “before” things—the thing before the thing. Because it might be something that just happened, or it could be something even older than that.

I was laughing about this when I was telling a small group last week about being late for school. I’m constantly agitated, thinking, “Oh my gosh, we can’t be late,” and all these other things. We were talking about judgment, and I realized that the voice in my head was actually from when I was a kid. My dad was one of those super-prompt people, and I was afraid of getting in trouble.

The voice in my head was saying, “We have to be on time for school, or we’re going to get in trouble.” Then I thought, “Wait, we’re going to get in trouble? Who’s getting in trouble?” So, the “thing before the thing” was really something that had happened to me when I was a little kid—not necessarily something happening now.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it was a story you were telling yourself.

Diane Dempster: Right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, it wasn’t even necessary. Sometimes it’s something that happens—an event that triggers an upset. Our kid says “no,” or we have to tell them twelve times to do something, and then they’re rude. Sometimes there’s an event, but sometimes it’s a story we tell ourselves.

For example, “We’re running late, so I must be a bad mom because I can’t get my kids out the door,” or, “We’re going to get in trouble.” Sometimes it’s the actual thing, and sometimes it’s our story about the thing—our interpretation of the thing—that we may not even realize we’re creating.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I would say that, technically, it’s always about the story we’re telling ourselves about the thing, right? Let’s not fool ourselves. Yes, the thing that’s happening may be irritating. But theoretically, you could be in the midst of an irritating situation and not let it get to you. I just want to say that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Fair enough.

Diane Dempster: And done, okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, I think the trigger journal—for ourselves, not for our kids—is a great idea. That’s a good strategy. There’s an article on the site—I’ll look for it—about “what are your tells?” But it’s about just noticing, as you referenced earlier, what happens before you get upset, triggered, or stressed.

Diane Dempster: This might be something your kids could help you with, right? One of the things we talk about in the trigger training is working as a family on this sort of thing. For example, “What does Mom look like when she’s mad? When do you notice that Mom’s upset? Or what do I look like when I start getting upset?”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And just for the record, it doesn’t matter how old your kids are—they will want to work with you on this.

Diane Dempster: Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They will love the chance to tell you when you’re about to mess up.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Be transparent. Don’t pretend like you’re not struggling with it, right?

Diane Dempster: Well, the thing I want to encourage everyone to consider is the distinction between observation and judgment. For example, I can say, “I observe that every time the dog barks—sorry, you guys can’t hear this, but my dog is barking like crazy in the room right now—every time the dog barks, I feel a little off, and I can sense it in my body.”

I can observe that without thinking, “Ooh, you should be out there taking care of the dog,” or, “Oh my gosh, I can’t believe the dog’s barking,” or whatever else. I can simply observe without judgment: “Wow, whenever the dog barks, I feel a little off.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, well, maybe that’s a great segue into how to handle it—what you just pointed to. I think the most important thing about handling it is to approach it from a place of observation, not judgment.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: And this stuff happens for really good reasons—our brain is trying to protect us from what feels like imminent danger. The challenge is that our brain doesn’t always understand that it’s not really imminent danger. So again, be gentle with yourself in this.

It doesn’t mean we don’t want to work on changing our behaviors, but if we start with, “I shouldn’t be doing this,” you’re adding more agitation to the mix, which is probably going to stress you out more than, “Wow, this is really interesting.

I’m completely agitated. How can I help myself? What do I need right now?” What do you need right now, sweetie? Can we do that a little bit?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it could be as simple as a sip of water, or taking a walk outside, or some deep breaths with long exhales. It could be as simple as knowing what your strategies are.

For some of us, it may be, “Okay, that’s the sign I need to go take a bath. I really need some time away.” Some of us need space.

Diane Dempster: I need to go walk the dog. I need to go...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I was so done. It’s like, I’m going to go walk the dogs.

Diane Dempster: And it was funny.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s a productive use of my time, and it gets me away from everybody.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I think a lot of times parents feel like, “I can’t get away.” But the key I’d give you is that most of us can always find a way to go to the bathroom. It’s like, “I’m sorry, I have to go to the bathroom. Excuse me,” and once we’re in there with the door closed, we can do whatever we want.

I know there are some of you with younger kids where it’s hard to close the door when you go to the bathroom, but I understand. The reality is, if you take that time in the bathroom just to breathe, breathe, and reclaim your brain—that’s the language we use. Cold water on your face, yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Figure out what works for you. We can give you suggestions. You can get on the forum and try suggestions with each other. Most of us have some idea of what works.

Diane Dempster: And there are going to be some of you who will say, “My kid is chasing me around the house. I can’t leave them alone,” and I get it.

Sometimes, it is hard. Emotional regulation 2.0 is figuring out how to reclaim your brain when you’ve got a melting-down kid in front of you, right? And not having to leave the melting-down kid just to go reclaim your brain—that’s not as easy.

But we want you to start by thinking about how to find moments where you can reclaim your brain. How do you remember what it feels like to be calm? What are the things that set you off? How do you feel when you’re calm versus when you’re agitated? And what are the tools you want to try?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, everybody, so what’s your insight from this? What are you taking away from this complex yet really basic conversation? Isn’t it? It’s both.

What insights have you gained that will help and that you want to carry forward into your week? Maybe you want to focus on prevention, noticing, or managing. Or maybe it’s about figuring out what you want to do. What’s the important piece of this for you?

Diane Dempster: Maybe it’s being more gentle with yourself.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Maybe it’s putting that stick down. Yeah. All right, everybody, thanks for what you’re...

Diane Dempster: Doing for yourself and for your kids. At the end of the day, you make the difference.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You make a huge difference. Everyone, take care. Bye.