Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Lynne, welcome back, everyone, to another conversation on the Parenting with Impact podcast. I’m excited to have a really interesting and heartfelt discussion today. My guest is Lynne Hughes, the founder of the first-ever nationwide nonprofit bereavement organization—a camp for kids called Comfort Zone Camp. She’ll tell us more about it shortly.

This camp supports kids dealing with grief and bereavement, which I think is a meaningful and relevant topic for our community. As parents of complex kids, we often face grief in various forms. Sometimes, we grieve the loss of the expectations we had for the child we thought we’d have, while learning to embrace the beauty of the child we do have.

Our kids, too, experience different kinds of grief—whether it’s not feeling connected to their neurotypical peers or struggling with feelings of inadequacy. These challenges manifest in many ways, so I believe this conversation will resonate deeply with our audience.

Let’s welcome Lynne and dive into this important topic. Lynne, thank you so much for joining us.

Lynne Hughes: Thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s truly a pleasure. So, let’s dive in. Tell us a little about the work you do with complex kids and how you came to do it.

Lynne Hughes: Yeah, so I am the founder and CEO of Comfort Zone Camp, which, as you mentioned, is a bereavement camp. We support kids who have experienced the loss of a parent, sibling, primary caregiver, or even a close friend.

If a child’s day-to-day life has been significantly impacted by a death, those are the kids we aim to help. Our programs are primarily for children and teens aged 7 to 17, but we also have separate programs for young adults aged 18 to 25.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Really interesting. And is it only for cases of death, or does it extend to loss through abandonment or similar situations?

Lynne Hughes: Our focus is on commemoration and helping kids stay connected to loved ones who have passed. So yes, it is primarily for death. However, our model could absolutely work for other forms of loss as well. Those kids are grieving too—it’s just a different type of loss.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So how did you come to be doing this work?

Lynne Hughes: Well...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You’ve been doing it for a while now, right?

Lynne Hughes: I just realized it’s been 25 years, which is kind of crazy! But I’m also one of those adult children who experienced trauma. When I went through it, there weren’t resources available to help me. At the time, I felt like what happened to me happened for a reason—it became my purpose to create something that didn’t exist when I needed it.

My trauma—my loss—began when I was growing up in Michigan. I used to joke that I drank pop and played Euchre—classic Midwest things. But when I was nine, my mom died unexpectedly. She had pulled a muscle in her leg while playing tennis, and just three days later, she passed away in her sleep from a blood clot. It was so fluky, so rare—something you never imagine happening to your family.

I had three brothers, and my dad was completely broken by the loss. He was a great guy—charismatic, successful, ran his own business—but he couldn’t step up to be both Mom and Dad. He carried this irrational guilt over her death, which he didn’t handle well. He started drinking heavily and began dating almost immediately. Within a year, he remarried a woman he’d known for only three months.

As you might imagine, their marriage was rocky from the start. My dad was grieving hard and drinking hard, and as they say, you attract where you are emotionally. After just over a year of marriage, they separated. My dad moved out and planned to divorce her. Then, within a month, he moved back in, quit drinking, and started attending AA. But shortly after, he had a massive heart attack and passed away. It was the day before I started seventh grade, which was junior high back then.

At that time, I didn’t know anyone who had lost even one parent, let alone two. Despite everything, I went to school on the first day of junior high because I didn’t want to be seen as “different.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You want to be different.

Lynne Hughes: Exactly. But none of my brothers went to school that day, which really shows how differently people in the same house can process the same loss. We all experienced the same tragedy, yet we had completely different lenses, reactions, and even memories of what happened.

But for me, I just didn’t want to stand out. I put on that mask to try to look like everyone else, even on that very first day. My insides were crying, but I was determined not to seem different.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I’m curious—where are you in the birth order?

Lynne Hughes: I’m third out of four, and I’m the only girl. Maybe that played a role—I don’t know. But I was the only one who went to school that day.

After my dad passed, we lived with my stepmom for about four or five years. She wasn’t great. She didn’t really know us well, and it was pretty clear she didn’t want to raise us. By the time I was heading into my senior year of high school, I asked to go live with my aunt and uncle. And, honestly, who does that unless the situation at home is really not good?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. That’s real.

Lynne Hughes: So, I moved about half an hour away to live with my fun aunt. She was great—super cool, and you could even swear in front of her. I thought she was the greatest, and my cousins were a lot of fun. But my uncle? Not so great. Naively, I thought, How bad can Uncle Frank really be?

When I first moved in, he didn’t speak to me for the first two weeks. If I walked into a room, he would walk out. It was this awkward dance we did. Then, after two weeks, we came face to face, and his first words to me were, “I’ll never love you as a father or even as an uncle, nor should you expect me to.” And then he just walked away. It was unbelievable.

It turned out he wasn’t just not great with me—he was an equal-opportunity bad guy. There are other words I could use, but they aren’t exactly PG. I was devastated. I had made this huge decision to leave my brothers, my friends, and everything familiar, thinking I was moving to a better situation because my stepmom wasn’t kind or nurturing. But instead, I ended up in this cold, unwelcoming environment.

The only time my uncle would talk to me was during Peace be with you at Sunday Mass, because, of course, he was a devout Catholic. Then, he wouldn’t speak to me again until the next Peace be with you the following Sunday. It was such a hard thing to wrap my head around.

After that, I went to college...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Can I pause you there for a moment?

Lynne Hughes: Yeah, sure.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There's so much material here.
Lynne Hughes: Yeah.
Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What’s really striking me is the story of your fun aunt. She seemed like someone who felt safe enough with you and attractive enough to open up, despite being with a partner who was clearly not kind. How did she navigate that situation?
I think this resonates with our community. The parallel that comes to mind is how we often see our kids fighting their own battles and struggles. Many people listening might be co-parenting with someone who doesn’t understand—or perhaps doesn’t even want to understand—just as your uncle clearly didn’t.

Lynne Hughes: That’s such a great point. I think, in her case, it was very generational. Back then, divorce wasn’t common, especially if you were Catholic—you simply didn’t get divorced. In fact, at one point, it could have meant excommunication.
For her, I think religion played a huge role. The way she grew up, divorce wasn’t an option. Even though she lived in a difficult situation, I don’t think she believed she had another choice, nor was she confident enough that she could support herself.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. 

Lynne Hughes: In hindsight, I look back and realize she knew what a jerky guy he was. On one hand, I’m torn because allowing me to move in was the first time she ever really stood up to him. But on the other hand, maybe she should have said no.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Lynne Hughes: Maybe she should have explored a more stable place for me. It’s interesting to think about. But yes, she didn’t feel like she had a choice. I used to have these endless talks with her, saying, "Aunt Lorraine, why are you staying? You don’t have to stay with him." But she genuinely felt like she did.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What you’re sharing is so resonant with our community. Sometimes, we don’t see the options available to us—we get locked into a narrow path, thinking it’s the only way forward.
Your aunt’s situation reflects that of a different generation, where women often didn’t feel confident they could support themselves. That’s less common now, though it’s still relevant. And in our community, we see parents in similar dynamics—trying to make everyone happy. Your aunt wanted to make you happy and support you, but she was also navigating her own challenges.

Lynne Hughes:  Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: She wanted to love you like a daughter, right? She wasn’t necessarily thinking through everything else. She was driven by what she wanted to do, not really considering what they had the capacity to create for you. And we often do that in our own way.

Lynne Hughes: Yes, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Lynne Hughes: When I went away to college, I had time to reflect and look back. Everyone struggles with the "why" when they face adversity or trauma, whether you're a 9-year-old girl, a 12-year-old girl, or an adult. We all have to process it and make some sense of it.
For me, as a 9-year-old, I truly believed that God thought I was special and that I was meant to use my life in some way. I felt like I had guardian angels watching over me, pulling strings to keep me safe. It was like a sense of purpose that became my guiding light.
I don't know why, but that sense of purpose really helped me when things were unstable or when I was facing the loss of unconditional love and hard times. I also remember people saying, "This is the worst thing that’ll ever happen to you," and I thought, "Okay, well, if this is as bad as it gets, I want to stick around and see the good." It was like a mindset of, "Come at me—I deserve the good, and I’m ready for it." That really helped me.
Reflecting on it now, I also think that growing up in a loving family made a huge difference. I knew what it was like to be unconditionally loved by my mom and dad. I knew they’d fight to be in the front row of my school play or recital. I knew they would want me to do the basic things—graduate, go to college, those kinds of things.
So, even though I experienced challenges later on with my stepmother and uncle, I was fortunate to have known what it wasn't supposed to be like. I think that really helped me endure.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I’m really struck by this. We talk a lot about resilience in our community, and there’s some amazing research on resilience showing that kids are more likely to succeed when they have support. Well, let’s talk more about this in a minute. We’re going to take a quick break, and we’ll be right back.

Lynne Hughes: Sure.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, welcome back, everyone. My guest is Lynne Hughes, and we’re discussing loss, grief, and bereavement, on one hand, but also how life throws curveballs and how we find a path forward—how, as you said, we can find purpose and a true north, and when we can’t.

I was starting to mention that in the research on resilience, we know that when kids have at least one person who believes in them, just one person, it can be enough to propel them into action.
What strikes me is that, in some way, even though the people who believed in you may not have been there anymore, you still carried their belief in you. Does that resonate with you?

Lynne Hughes: You’re giving me goosebumps. My dad used to say to me all the time that I could be anything I wanted and have anything I wanted. He’d tell me I was smart, I was talented, and the world was mine if I wanted it. He’d say I could go after my dreams. I mean, he said it repeatedly.
When I was younger, there were still some messages like, "Boys get to do this, girls get to do that," but it was unique in that he always told me, "You're smart, you have the full package, you can do anything you want." So, I grew up truly believing that.
But after the losses I experienced, I went from being this confident person who believed in herself to suddenly being keenly aware that the people who unconditionally loved me and wanted me here were gone.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Lynne Hughes: It felt like a picture window had been dropped and shattered. The journey became about putting all those pieces back together, but there were gaps and cracks. Things were rearranged, but in the end, the picture was whole again—it’s just very different now.
I was also acutely aware of which version of Lynne was going to show up at any given moment because I had lost that security and confidence. Yet, I still knew that’s who I used to be. It was always a struggle. So, over the years, I worked to rebuild that confident version of myself. It took time, but it was an interesting journey.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I’m really struck by this. I often say that what our kids need from us is for us to hold the vision of what they’re capable of until they can see it for themselves—the vision of what’s possible. Your dad clearly held that vision for you. What was the path for you to find that vision for yourself?

Lynne Hughes: I think having that belief in me—growing up believing I could do anything I wanted—was part of it. But I also always felt like I was supposed to use my life in some way to make a difference.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Where do you think that came from?

Lynne Hughes: I don’t know. I don’t know if it’s something that gets into your DNA or your wiring, but I truly felt like I needed to make something of my life, leave my mark on the world. Over time, that became about leaving a legacy for my parents or doing something I knew they would want me to do.
In some ways, it feels like a gift, but in others, it’s a burden. I have the ability to do these things, and because of that, I feel a responsibility to use it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Lynne Hughes: To do so.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I feel you. I mean, here we are—two driven, compassionate, successful women who’ve created something to support others, because that’s just why we’re here, right?

Lynne Hughes: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And like you, I have no idea why, except that I knew from the age of 16 that I was supposed to do something. I wonder if that sense of purpose connected with you so early on that it became almost a compelling force.

Lynne Hughes: I would say absolutely. I remember being in college, thinking, “Okay, what major will help me use my life to make a difference?” Of course, there wasn’t a clear answer, but I kept feeling like I didn’t fit into any career box. It was like an awareness that I had to support myself, but I also had this sense that I was required to do something to leave my mark.
After my parents died, I went to summer camp—a regular girls’ camp. I loved it, but what it really gave me was a chance to step outside my loss and reconnect with being a kid again. If you’ve ever been to camp, it’s like a magical bubble.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yes. 

Lynne Hughes: Nothing exists outside the bubble of camp. And if that speaks to you, I think you’re always trying to find a way to go back to camp. So, I was in college with no idea what major to pursue or what I wanted to do, but I knew I wanted to be a camp counselor—hopefully as cool as the ones I had when I was a kid.
I went to Michigan State, attended their summer job fair, and they had a gazillion camps. If you had a pulse, they'd hire you. So, I thought, "Let’s get out of state—that would be interesting."
There was only one co-ed camp available, and I thought, "Well, that would be interesting." It was in Pennsylvania, in the Poconos. I don’t know if you can see where this is going…

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Lynne Hughes: I met my husband, who was also a camp counselor at that camp. He was from Virginia, I was still at Michigan State, and we dated long distance. We went back to that camp for three summers, and then I moved to Virginia to join his life.
But ultimately, that was the driving force behind our shared love for kids and summer camp. Still, I felt incomplete. I had some jobs that seemed kind of random, and...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It all came together.

Lynne Hughes: Exactly. Every single job I had gave me a skill set that I eventually needed to run a bereavement camp.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that, and I want to go back to something for the parents of complex kids to know—that everything can come together, because in your own way, you were a complex kid, right?

Lynne Hughes: Yeah, oh, definitely.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But can you make the distinction between finding this purpose and survivor guilt?

Lynne Hughes: Hmm. I mean, I don’t think everyone thinks of survivor guilt the same way. Personally, I didn’t experience it, but I’ve been around people who have, and I know it’s real. Guilt is the trickiest of emotions when it comes to grief. It’s not rational, and it’s one of the hardest emotions to sort through.
When kids at camp experience a lot of guilt, we spend a lot of time addressing it. We even try peer-to-peer conversations like, "Do you think Elaine should feel guilty?" We had a nine-year-old girl who couldn’t save her father after he had a stroke in front of her. She called 911 while her mom froze, and at nine years old, she tried to save him. She carried that guilt for a long time.
I’d ask the other kids, "Do you think Laura should have known how to do CPR and save her dad at nine years old?" For her to hear it from her peers, instead of just from adults, was powerful. It’s not rational, and when they hear it from others, it helps them realize that a nine-year-old isn’t expected to know what to do in a situation like that. It was bigger than her, unfair, but bigger than her.

So, trying to unpack the guilt and help them let go of the "woulda, shoulda, coulda" mentality is important. And with survivor guilt or any trauma, surviving it is a choice. When you turn 18, it doesn’t magically mean you’re okay, or happy, just because you’re an adult. Surviving is a choice.
Being okay with it is a choice. That doesn’t mean it’s fair or that you weren’t robbed of something, but you can still be okay if you fight for it, if you choose it, if you speak for it. That’s what you were talking about with resilience.
So, when you build resilience and make that choice to survive, you can receive the gifts that come from it. There’s always something good that comes from something bad. And the gifts of seeing the world in different colors and textures, of appreciating people more—it’s all there. But you have to make the choice to survive it, to be okay, and to allow those gifts to come to you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So much wisdom here. I guess the question that just came to me as I was listening to you is: are there three key messages, or maybe five? Or, what are the key things you want to make sure the kids who come to your camp are exposed to? Not necessarily that they’ll leave knowing them, but at least be exposed to what’s important for them to understand in order to cultivate their own resilience and their ability to make choices. 

Because you’re saying surviving is a choice, and in my world, with all these complex kids, learning to manage themselves is also a choice. Sometimes it’s hard to get them to engage with that choice. So, what are the messages that help with that?

Lynne Hughes: One key message is letting them know that there’s no one right way to grieve. It’s not formulaic or a recipe. Some kids might cry, some might journal, others might express their emotions in different ways. But the important thing is for them to find a way to express it. There’s no timetable. Grief doesn’t just go away after six months or a year. It’s a lifelong journey, almost like having a lifelong handicap. You learn to put on emotional braces and navigate your loss. If you choose to do that, the frequency and intensity of grief will get better over time.

The way grief happens, how often, and how long it lasts will improve, but every now and then you’ll hear a song or see someone who reminds you of your loved one, and you’ll have a grief moment. But, if you’ve built resilience skills and are moving forward in your new life, the frequency of these moments will decrease, and the recovery time will get shorter. It won’t send you spiraling all the way down every time.

Another message is to let them know they’re not alone. When kids show up at camp, they meet 60 others who have experienced significant loss. Most kids grieve in isolation—they wear that mask, like I did—and they don’t know anyone who’s like them. So, knowing that they’re not alone and meeting others who get it is huge. It helps validate whatever they’re feeling, and it’s okay for them to express it however it comes.

And for parents, one important thing to understand is that kid grief doesn’t look like adult grief. Kids don’t wear black, and they don’t grieve 24/7. They can compartmentalize it. For example, right after a funeral, kids might be excited to see cousins or play ball. Then, they might scrape their knee and burst into tears because they miss their mom who passed away. You put the band-aid on, and they’re back playing again. If you blink, you miss it.

Kids grieve, but often in short bursts. It’s often a healthier way to grieve because they can compartmentalize it. They are grieving; it just doesn’t look the same as adult grief, where you might feel immobilized and unable to focus on anything else.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What’s really standing out to me as I think about this is that we’re a dog family, and we’ve always had two dogs. Over the years, our kids have experienced the loss of many family members—dogs, grandparents, great-grandparents, and so on. I remember when my grandfather, who lived to 102, passed away. My kids started talking about the dogs, which was really interesting. When they were sad, they expressed it by saying, “I miss my dog,” because that’s how they compartmentalized it and how they could process their grief.

Lynne Hughes: Yeah, absolutely, that’s great.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Hearing you say that, it’s fascinating how grief can come up in different ways. They might talk about one thing, but it could be their way of processing something else.

Lynne Hughes: Yes, and giving them the validation or the opportunity to make those connections on their own, those “Aha” moments.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s really powerful. Alright, I’d like to ask how people can find out more about you. But before we wrap up, let’s take a moment for you to share any final thoughts, and we can discuss how people can reach out if they know someone who could benefit from your work. How can they find more information about your comfort zone?

Lynne Hughes: The easiest way to find us is through our website, comfortzonecamp.org. You can Google it, or find us directly on the website. We’re also on social media.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it’s a nonprofit, so I assume there are scholarships available?

Lynne Hughes: Yes, all of our camps are free of charge. We don’t want a child to miss out just because they can’t afford it. Death is a great equalizer, so we want to make it accessible to everyone.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Wow.

Lynne Hughes: Yes, we strive to make it as accessible as possible.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I know your camp is for kids up to age 17. What services do you offer for those over 18? I have someone in mind who could benefit.

Lynne Hughes: We offer young adult weekends for those 18 and older. These are also free of charge. We also have limited scholarships for all our camp programs and can help with travel costs if that removes any barriers to attending.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s amazing. What you’re doing is so important, beautiful, and inspiring. Really.

Lynne Hughes: Thank you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So before we wrap up, we were just talking about the key messages you share with kids. Is there anything else you’d like to add or anything we haven't covered that you think is important for our listeners to know?

Lynne Hughes: Our camps are for all types of loss. We also have specialized camps, like those for suicide loss or overdose loss, which are important. While mixing with everyone else is helpful, some losses come with unique stigmas, and we've found that having specific camps for those types of grief can be beneficial.

I also want to talk about preparing kids for back-to-school. Don’t assume that the knowledge of a loss from previous years is being passed on to school counselors or teachers. It’s important to advocate for your child and let the school know, especially around holidays like Mother's Day or Father's Day.

Help your child develop a plan for when grief hits unexpectedly. We don’t schedule grief; it can happen at any time. If your child is in class and starts to feel overwhelmed, they should have a strategy in place. Maybe they can use a code, like tapping their nose, to let the teacher know they need a moment. They could ask to go to the bathroom or have a break. It could be a time to cry, practice deep breathing, or even make it to lunch or see a school counselor. Teaching them how to compartmentalize grief for later can also help.

Also, be prepared for questions from other students. The common question is usually, “How many siblings do you have?” If your child has lost a sibling, it’s good to help them come up with a response. Similarly, questions about parents or where they live can also trigger emotions. Help your child develop a response strategy, so they don’t feel blindsided by those conversations. Having a plan will help them feel more in control and prepared.

And don’t forget about the forms that need to be filled out for school. It’s important for parents to have a plan for taking care of themselves as well as supporting their kids.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, that’s amazing, and it’s so fascinating to me how much this parallels our community. It highlights the importance of advocating for a safe environment for our kids at school, and ensuring they have the tools to take care of their emotional health when they need a break. Preparing for all of these things is so comparable. It’s all about acknowledging the reality of their emotional health and understanding that, for kids to be able to learn, they need to feel emotionally safe and grounded. As adults, our job is to create the space for them to do that, right?

Lynne Hughes: I think preparing kids for life also means teaching them that life isn’t always fair.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Lynne Hughes: Sometimes kids might ask, "Why is this happening?" Life can seem senseless and unfair. But when adults step in and say, "We’re going to get through this as a family," it makes a big difference. We help them know that their parent or guardian has things under control, even if they themselves have had their own curveballs to face. Kids take their cues from parents on how to navigate these challenges. If the parent demonstrates good coping skills, talks about the situation, and validates emotions like crying or feeling upset, then the child learns how to process those emotions and feel better. All of this is what kids absorb from their parents as they learn to handle tough situations. That’s really an important piece.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That is so true. Lynne, thank you. This has been a great conversation. Is there anything else you’d like to mention before we wrap up? I know you share a lot of wisdom. Is there anything you want to make sure we cover?

Lynne Hughes: Just that kids don’t have to be doing badly to need support. It’s important for them to know they’re not alone and that they’re part of a community that understands, that says, “Me too.” We’ve seen this firsthand. Over the years, we’ve helped 24,000 children in the last 25 years. We’re now in 12 states, and the need is even greater post-COVID, with the increase in suicide and overdose rates. But these kids, so many of them, a third of our current volunteers are former campers. It’s amazing to see them giving back. It’s just beautiful, the ripples it creates.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s really beautiful. And it’s so true that kids don’t have to be struggling badly for us adults to recognize that they may still need support.

Lynne Hughes: Exactly. And we need to give them those tools. Parents can’t carry the whole burden of trauma on their own. They fill the gap with things and people. They need others on their team, and we’d love to be part of that team.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. I love it. Before we wrap up, do you have a favorite quote or motto you’d like to share?

And just to preempt, we always let our guests know we’re going to ask this question, and Lynne’s response was, "Oh, we do that too."

Lynne Hughes: Just yesterday, at the closing, I ended my small healing circle by sharing my favorite quote. It’s by John F. Kennedy: "One person can make a difference, and every person should try."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that. "One person can make a difference."

Lynne Hughes: And every person should try.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. “And every person should try.”

Lynne Hughes: Thank you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. Lynne, thank you again for the work you're doing in the world and for being here to share it with our community. I truly appreciate it.

Lynne Hughes: Thank you, and thank you for the work you do.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thank you. And to those of you listening, there’s been a lot in this conversation that connects the grief journey to navigating neurodiversity and supporting complex kids. So, what insight are you taking away from this conversation? What awareness, what one or two gems are really sticking with you that you want to carry forward into your life? Think about that. What’s the takeaway?

And, as always, thank you for the work you’re doing for yourself and your kids. At the end of the day, as we’ve heard more clearly here than ever before, your ability to hold a vision, to see for them what they can’t see for themselves, truly makes a difference. Take care, everybody.