Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody, to another conversation in the Parenting with Impact podcast. We are going to talk today about nagging.

Diane Dempster: Oh, how many times do you have a parent, like, talk about or a partner or a kid? I feel like I'm nagging all the time. I'm having to nag, or my kid says I'm nagging and they want me to stop nagging, or my kid's nagging me. Right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: About I want, I want, I want. Or my partner or. Nagging is just one of those things that becomes part of our life that we would like to get rid of. We can help with that.

Diane Dempster: We can help with that. And it sounds like part of what we want to talk about is, like, what do we mean by nagging? Honestly, I think that nagging is one of those things that's in the eye of the beholder. I could say something to you twice and you'd be like, why are you nagging me, Diane? That's the first piece, is who gets to decide when it's nagging and when it's not nagging.

I think the way I would simplify it is like, if you're saying the same thing more times than you feel like you should, or that you want to, or that the other person thinks that you should or want you to, or you're involved at a different level, right? Is this sort of you're more involved than they want you to be, or you're more involved than you want to be?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I mean, really, think about it. Nagging is trying to get somebody else to do something. At the end of the day, bottom line, nagging is trying to get someone else to do something.

And whether it's parents trying to get kids to do their homework or kids trying to get parents to buy them one more thing or take them to the place or let them have the whatever, or it's a partner trying to get their partner to help around the house, right?

Diane Dempster: So if I say it once or if I say it 700 times, that's not the point. It's not how many times you do it. Is it that it's unwanted or is it that it's...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Maybe it's both. Maybe it's the combination. Maybe nagging is when you try to get somebody else to do something and then you ask again and again, right, there is something repetitive about it. It's not.

If I say, if my kid says, "Mom, can I have that new Xbox technology Xbox?" and we say, "No," and that's it. It's when they say, "I really want that Xbox, can I have the Xbox, really?" That's when it becomes nagging, when there is kind of a repetitive request.

Diane Dempster: So it's repetitive and it's trying to get something from someone else or trying to help. I'm going to use the word "help" gently, but it's like you're trying to change a behavior or make a request or something like that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and it's because it's your agenda you're nagging. The person who's doing the nagging, the reminding, the requesting has something they want.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Even if they want someone else to. I mean, I might be nagging my husband to get the thing fixed around the house and it's his to do, but I'm the one that wants it done.

Diane Dempster: Right. Well, and it doesn't mean, like we talked, there's a whole episode on agenda. And whose agenda is it? And we point you this, we'll tag to that, right. And it may be that it's a shared agenda, but you definitely have a stake in the game.

So let's start with that. You have a stake in the game. You're interested in asking for something and there's probably some sort of repetition built in. Whether it's like immediate or over several months or whatever it is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Nagging. If I've heard from it once, if your kid's saying you're nagging me, if you've only asked once, then it's probably that they've got their own stuff.

Diane Dempster: So let's talk about whether it's the problem with nagging. So what we ask more than once, what's the problem?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I think the problem is that we're trying to make sure people get something done or we're trying to be helpful and it's not perceived as helpful. That's one thing is that it feels like a control or an annoyance. Like when someone's nagging you, it's annoying.

Diane Dempster: Yeah. You're asking me over and over again and I don't want to hear it one more time. Right. So it impacts the other person is the first thing. The other piece, I think, honestly is it impacts you. Because a lot of us feel like if we have to, if we're doing it over and over again, resentment creeps in, frustration, all of those fear, disappointment.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What if they can't? What if they can't ever?

Diane Dempster: Right. Catastrophizing becomes a problem when there's an emotional reaction to it. Like either their emotional reaction or our emotional reaction. Is what?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: When a request has an emotional reaction?

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. When you want something from someone else or they want something from you, and there's this kind of emotional overlay to it, feeling.

Diane Dempster: Can't believe you're asking me that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right, right. Okay. Yeah. That's kind of interesting. I like hearing her say that you could be her kids. You can feel what it felt like back in the day.

Diane Dempster: Right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Like, oh, my God, really? You're asking me it again?

Diane Dempster: Well, and as we think about that, it's like this sort of. Okay, I guess that's enough of the backstory. So what do you do instead?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Wait, no. Can we pause just a little bit before we get to solution?

Diane Dempster: Sure.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. Because I really want to break this down a little bit. Okay. So I love what you just said, which is that it's about trying to get something we want or somebody getting something they want, and there's this emotional layer over it, but I want to break that down a little bit, because sometimes, as parents, we've done another episode on this, I think we think we're helping, and they're feeling controlled.

So the emotional reaction. Emotional feeling is a reaction to feeling controlled. So for us, as parents, we might be disappointed or afraid or worried, but for our kids or the person we're asking of, they may be feeling controlled or disempowered or not. Like they have a sense of agency in some way. Is that fair?

Diane Dempster: Yeah, it is. And I think about the other side of it, which is the emotions that we talked about a minute ago that you might be feeling. It's like resentment, frustration, all those sorts of things. And it's the reminder that whenever you have an emotional trigger, whether it's yours or theirs, you're trying to change a behavior.

You're trying to get something accomplished. It's hard to do that when there's emotions involved. You've got to figure out how to regulate enough so that we're not. Because the minute somebody's emotions get triggered, you're not dealing with the issue anymore. You're now all about, oh, my gosh, my partner is feeling resentful, or, oh, my gosh, I feel like I'm a nag. Whatever.

It's like I'm thinking about feeling like a nag and not about, how am I going to get my kids out of the door in the morning?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and as parents, let's move into the parent role here for a second. We often step into this role of executive function support for our kids.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We're the ones trying to make sure the stuff gets done. The trains are running on time. However you want to look at it, and sometimes we have to give ourselves permission to not. But there is this role we play in terms of being the executive function for other people. When there's executive function issues in a family, we're always dancing with who's kind of taken the lead on executive function and who's getting support.

And as parents, we often feel like it's our job. We're supposed to get them to school on time. We're supposed to get them to know we had a situation come up in our community in the United Kingdom where somebody's actually getting in trouble with the government for not getting their kids to school enough.

So we have this sense that we're supposed to. So we're just doing our job here, but our job relies on someone else doing their job. And that's another place that this nagging becomes a challenge, because there are these layers of agenda, right?

Diane Dempster: Yeah. Well, and it makes it hard, because, again, it's this sort of dynamic of, we're more interested in getting something done than they are. I mean, there's all these different pieces of it. Go and listen to the thing about agenda. Listen to the podcast about buy-in. I mean, all of those sorts of things are an important component here. So. Yes.

And the reality is, let's not make trying to be an executive function wrong. No, I don't mean to be really legitimate. Right. And one of the things we teach is that we don't want to do it without permission. It's just sort of, if I'm just jumping in and saying, okay, nobody else in my family has executive function. I've been there. I've done that.

Nobody else has an executive function right now. I'm going to take over and I'm going to make everything happen. And I just do that, then it might be welcomed. And everybody's like, oh, thank God. Mom's jumping in and taking care of things. Or it might be, oh, here we go again. Mom's getting involved, and she never. Exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: All right, so I think we've set the stage really well. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll come back and talk about some cool.

Diane Dempster: Awesome. Okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody. Elena, Diane here. And we are talking about nagging, and we have set the stage. If you listen to the first half of this, you understand what it is, why it happens, why it's complicating complicated problems.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Why it causes problems. And now let's talk about how to shift it. Okay.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I think the thing we were just talking about before the break was this sort of if you're doing it consciously and in a context of an agreement. With permission.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Collaboratively.

Diane Dempster: Collaboratively. Right. Then it absolutely changes the dynamic. Can I tell my story?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Well, so the framework you're saying is nagging versus reminding with permission.

Diane Dempster: Right. Okay. Reminding with permission. So the story is like flashback to our house when my kids were little and we're trying to get out of the door to school on time, and I feel like I'm constantly going, come on, we're going to be late. Come on, we're going to be late. Come on, we're going to be late. Come on, we're going to be late.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Probably were.

Diane Dempster: I probably was right. And it's like I felt resentful because it's like I feel like a broken record. I feel like nobody's listening to me. I feel like, I mean, all of those sorts of things. And at some point my kids are like, they shut me out. Right.

Because it's like I don't want to hear you anymore because you've been saying the same thing for every day, all week long or all month long or however long it was going on. And so we sat down and said, okay, wait, how do we get out of the door on time and not do it in a way where I feel like I'm constantly going, hey, what's going on?

Because it's bugging you. It's bugging me. Let's figure this out. And we figured out that we needed a reminder system in the process and it could or could not be me. And so I think that's the piece of it is like we could have set an alarm that went off every five minutes to let us know what time it was and we could have Siri go, it's seven five, it's 710. Those sorts of things.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Siri wasn't around back then. Okay, go ahead.

Diane Dempster: Anyway. And the system, the family system, needed something, the reminder know what was going on and where we were and how many minutes do we have left and what's going on. So keeping time was an important part of the process, so it became my job because we agreed to it. Okay, so, mom. Yeah.

It doesn't bug us if you're just letting us know what time it is and there's not that judgy tone in your voice like you're freaking out that we're not going to be at school on time. It's just, it's seven five, it's 710.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Hello, everybody.

Diane Dempster: To let you know, it's 720 and we have five more minutes. So part of it is agreement. And part of it might be the energy behind it, because we were talking totally the energy or the break about all the emotions that get caught in when you're feeling like you're nagging versus if you're feeling like it's your job.

And for a while, honestly, when I was trying to change that behavior, I had to pretend I was an alarm clock and just kind of be like a computer and not be mom, but just to be the reminder system.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, we talk in our communication class about there's what we say and then there's how we say it, right? And then there's what they hear and how they experience it, right? So there are kind of four parts to communication.

And so part of what you're saying is we got to take the tone out of it, the judgment out of it, the fear, the catastrophizing, the disappointment, the resentment out of it, so that we can just be kind of matter of fact about it.

Diane Dempster: If you have permission, if you have permission to be the reminder.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it's really interesting because the story that comes up for me is another variation of the reminder system. In the morning, getting out of the door. So we didn't know we were going to talk about that, but I guess that's when a lot of nagging happens, right?

In our family. We also had a family meeting, and we sat down and said, okay, this morning sucked. How do we make this better? And what we realized was our family needed a reminder system just like yours did. But instead of doing it from a time base that way, we did it with a, it's 652. And my husband would come out and do the weather report every day.

And so when he did the weather report and said, here's how cold it is going to be today, or whatever it was, so that they would know how to get dressed, we timed it to when they were getting dressed. They also knew what time it was because that's when the weather report came out. So it wasn't just, it's 652, but it's really cold out there. You all.

You might want a sweater or whatever it was, but that was designed with the family, collaboratively created, and so that he would give the weather at one time, and then I did something else at another time. So the timestamps were there for them, but they were triggered and associated with something else that they also needed. Does that make sense?

Diane Dempster: It does. So I want to go a little bit of a different direction because I think these are two great examples of nagging in the context of time management. The other time I hear a lot about nagging is my kids said they would do something and then they haven't done.

So I feel like I have to tell them again and again and again. And so to me, the first step in that is before you. Nagging is a tool. Right. It's a strategy.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Not a very fun one, but it's a strategy.

Diane Dempster: Right. And so whenever we teach challenges and talking about challenges and talking about change, we want to go back to the problem before we throw in the solution. Right. The problem is my kids said that they were going to turn in their homework and they didn't.

And so I go to nagging as the solution instead of going, well, I wonder what's going on that's making it hard for my kid to turn in their homework. Is it that they forgot, which means that they might need a reminder, or is there something else going on that is making it hard for them to do it? Is there some embarrassment?

Is there some. I remember my kiddo saying he hated turning his assignments in late because he felt like he was the only one that was late and that people were judging him and blah, blah, blah. Right. You've got to understand what's really going on underneath it or if they don't have the executive function. Right. It's just sort of, okay, so I'm not doing it because I forgot or I'm not doing it because I'm resisting or I'm not doing it.

You have to look at what's really going on and figure out what a solution might be in the context of what's going on and in partnership with your kiddo, rather than saying, well, they didn't do it, so I have to remind them. Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and so that's the piece, is the I have to.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: When I feel like I have to, that's my agenda of, I got to make sure this gets done.

Diane Dempster: That's your emotions kicking in. I have to.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And so when we shift into agreement, and I'll make sure we have a link to the design podcast we did about relationship and agreements, got them both down here.

When we shift into an agreement, we can talk about how do you want me to handle it? When, how do you want us to do that? So whether it's, I want to report a weather report or I used to have this agreement with my son about the night the trash needed to go out. And so for me, I used humor because that was his favorite tool. And if I could be playful about. It's so cute.

You think you'll remember to take the trash out on Monday night. What other structure might we put in place? How could we set it up so that he was the one setting alarms for himself or whatever it was that we designed? There was a lightness to it because there was an agreement that it needed to get done. We needed to work together to figure out how to help make it get done. Instead of the nagging, nagging, nagging.

Diane Dempster: And the thing that's coming up for me as you're saying that, Elaine, is that so often we go into nagging mode because we're anxious.

And let's, let's face like when I get off balance, whether I'm overwhelmed or frustrated or scared or whatever, my coping mechanism is control. So I'm going to be like, okay, wait, we got to do this. I got to help. We got to make it happen. Right?

That's what happens when I get overwhelmed or scared. And so part of this is knowing, am I jumping in because I'm scared? Am I jumping in because I'm frustrated? What's my emotion that's going on? If you're jumping in, there's some emotion underneath that, even if you're not aware of it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it may not be that it's wrong that something needs to get done, but it's the how are we going to get it done that may need to change. That's really what we're talking about here.

Diane Dempster: And the reminder that operating from fear again, it's just sort of, we're not effectively problem solving if we're operating from a place of fear. Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So the concept, the coaching tool that just came up for me in that, as you were talking about that was transparency. And how often I've guided parents to have a conversation with their kids.

So when we do our coaching groups for parents of teens and older and young adults, we often take aim on the conversation they want to have.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And very often the conversation will go something like, I don't really want to be nagging you on this. And I get the feeling you don't really want to be nagged. Is that true? Would we like to change this and we can get there then once we have the agreement?

Yeah, we'd both like this to change. It serves both of us. It's in both of our best interest not to do this. Then we can collaboratively come up with a new way to communicate.

Diane Dempster: Well, the other place that that transparency tool comes in is being honest with our kids about the fact that it is agitating or fear producing or whatever else I'm thinking back to a mom and going back to mornings, being late.

Right. It's a sort of, the mom was coming into work like five minutes late, being late for meetings, and it was really impacting her ability to be effective in her job because she was, like, running in the door trying to get into a meeting, and she was constantly up against the wire with the time, and she was feeling more pressure around the time than her kiddo was because her kiddo is like, well, we have...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: To be at school at 7:30.

Diane Dempster: What's your problem, mom at 7:21?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Accident on the freeway.

Diane Dempster: It wasn't until she said, hey, you know what? I get that your time is 730, but in my mind, the time is really 720 because I need to give myself enough of a buffer. Can we agree that the time we really need to be at school is 720? Oh, mom, I don't want to be at school early. Right. So then you are finding out now.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You’re navigating a whole different conversation.

Diane Dempster: Yes, exactly. They want to be at school later. You want to be to school earlier. You can work together and partner to solve that problem in a very different way than I'm nagging because I'm trying to accomplish a goal that they don't even care about or they disagree with.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and so part of what happens when we start learning this process of taking aim and problem solving all this is that we end up saying, okay, we thought we were taking aim on this problem, but in fact, the problem we're really trying to solve is I want to help my kid be more comfortable getting to school a few minutes early.

And so now you're taking aim on a totally different challenge. And when you problem solve about that, it has this really beautiful impact as we unfold to other challenges. So we got to make sure when we're problem solving that we're actually solving the right problem.

Diane Dempster: Right. So how do we bottom line this? Right. So one was a lot of beautiful distinction between what is nagging. And we talked about the fact that when it's unwanted by the other person, when it's emotion producing, those sorts of things.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Things, and then we talked about the problems with it. Really the biggest problem is it damages relationships. Yeah, I don't think we said it, but it's difficult. It can be really harmful.

Diane Dempster: And let's say this really cleanly because we've been alluding to this. This isn't just about parent and child stuff. Both of us live with neurodivergent spouses. If you jump into their stuff without permission, it will often be seen as nagging.

And so regardless of who you're doing it to, regardless of the heart who's doing it to you, regardless of the heart behind it, you may have amazing intentions. And if they're not in the space to hear it or not wanting to receive it, it still could be considered nagging.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. And so really we want to shift from nagging to agreed upon reminders with permission or solving the problem that really needs to be solved and not whatever we think we're nagging about. Those are kind of the two places. The only other thing I would say to bottom line it is to hold it lightly, like be playful with it. This is a human dynamic.

We all do this from time to time. Call yourself out on it. Use that transparency tool to be able to say, okay, I'm ready to stop being a nagger. It's going to take a little work. Anybody want to help? Because believe me, they want to help.

Diane Dempster: No, they do. And I just like to punctuate, it's like a whole other story just kicked in. But one of the things I realized in the whole process of the whole thing getting to school on time is I realized just how much of an ingrained fear it was.

And I was freaking out about being late for school and the voice in my head was my dad's. And I was like, we're going to get in trouble if we're late to school. And I was like, wait, who's going?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: To get us in trouble?

Diane Dempster: So again, it's just sort of knowing what's going on for you underneath it. If you're the nagger or you're the naggy, really paying attention to what's going on for you emotionally underneath it is such a great lens into how do I navigate this and figure out a solution without having the emotional charge underneath it? Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Beautiful. All right, everybody, great conversation. I love that one.

Diane Dempster: Always.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thanks for doing for yourself and for your kids. What are you taking away from this conversation about the truth about nagging that you want to bring forward into your life this week? Take a minute, capture for yourself and we'll see you on the next one.

Diane Dempster: Thanks, everybody. Bye.