Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back everybody to another conversation in the Parenting with Impact podcast. We're going to have a really cool conversation today. We're really excited. Is there something you want to say? I'm watching your face, Diane. 

Diane Dempster: Oh no, no. I was just going to say our new friend IngerShaye Colzie is here to talk to us. And before we jump into everything, tell us a little bit about your backstory and how you got into the work you're doing.

IngerShaye Colzie: I'm so excited to be here because I was just gushing with you all before we started, but I am so excited to be here. The how I ended up getting here is I come to find out it's a story that many women have. I didn't know that I had ADHD until I was in my probably late 40s, early 50s. And I am a psychotherapist, so I always find that really funny because when I went to grad school, they didn't talk about ADHD really at all. And whatever they may have said was about little white boys falling out of their chairs, and it might have been a paragraph in one class. So it was really interesting when I had my son that about fifth grade, they were like, well, we think he might. Do you think you would let – maybe he should because they don't ever want to get it out.

Diane Dempster: They're not supposed to, right?

IngerShaye Colzie: And so I was like, sure, because if this will stop you guys from calling me every day, we'll do whatever we need to do. So when they send home all those rating scales because that's what they'll do for you if they ask you to have your child be tested. As I'm checking off every box, I'm like, oh, that's me. That's me. Once I started working with women with ADHD, I come to find out that that's a common story that many women find out about their ADHD after their kids because they finally get those rating scales. But I didn't do anything about my ADHD because I was too busy taking care of him. He was a little black boy in a white school. As I mentioned, they called me — I'm not kidding — almost every day. And at first, it was interesting. They did not want to give him a diagnosis of ADHD. They actually didn't want to test him for that. They test him for a lot of other things, and he scored gifted on a lot of things. And they were like, isn't this exciting that he's gifted? I had a friend who was a school psychologist who said, you have to come to my house and let me read this so I can explain it to you. And she said, they have not tested him for this, which they said they would, and you need to make them do it. And so I said, okay. And I wouldn't get out of my chair until they did. And literally, the school psychologist at some point was like, well, I have to go to a doctor's appointment, like I have to leave. And I said you need to call them because you're not going to make it. Because my friend also said, don't you get out of that chair until you get what you want, and you probably want an IEP or at least to have them test. And then, once they tested, they gave me the IEP instead of the 504 because, again, they were calling me every day. So, as I mentioned, taking care of him for all these years, in the school district, like being one of a few black kids in the school, he was seen as a discipline problem.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. That's what I was going to ask is he was evaluated for behavior issues, right?

IngerShaye Colzie: Yeah. And they knew nothing. This is what was just so shocking to me. They knew nothing about ADHD because once he got diagnosed the deep that we ADHD people go on, I went deep, and I had all of this knowledge. And every year, I used to come with a perimeter about my son and ADHD. And it was always so shocking to me. I'd ask, how many years have you been in education? And people say, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. And I was like, I've got one kid. This is the one time I'm in education because I'm not an educator. How come I know more about this than you? 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So can I pause you for a minute there because I think this is an important conversation because what you've said in this very short time so far is you were trained as a psychotherapist, and you got virtually no education about ADHD.And then you got into the school system and discovered all of these people who have been teaching for years had no education about ADHD.

Diane Dempster: Can we clarify what year that was because it's not like we're talking about 40 years ago. 

IngerShaye Colzie: No, no. My son is 19 now. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. So we're talking in the last 15 years.

IngerShaye Colzie: Yeah. Less than that. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: This is a really common trope, if you will, this story. And we believe that everybody should have this training, and we, as parents, expect that the teachers and the therapists are the professionals who understand it better than we do. And it's a really big eye-opener for us to realize, wow, oftentimes, we are the most educated person in the room about these issues, particularly ADHD. And that it's a shift to stop blaming them for not having the education and start inviting them to become better educated. 

Diane Dempster: Well, and to take it a step further, because you were saying about the story you heard in school was, it's a bunch of little white boys falling out of their chairs.

There's so many different flavors of this, whether you're an adult, a kid, or inattentive combined. I mean, all of these sorts of things. There's so, so much nuance to this that we are often the most aware and educated in the room, particularly about our kids' situation. How did that play out for you?

IngerShaye Colzie: Yeah, absolutely. Excuse me. And part of this why this is important for me and my story is that I had to fight to get the diagnosis, I had to fight to get the IEP. How many of these meetings was I sitting around that big long table and it's you and my husband would come, and eventually got an advocate, and we eventually got an attorney. But in the beginning, it was just me. I told my husband to just sit there and look pretty because I'm going to be the one that's going to fight, and that's intimidating. For most of the people I work with, they don't even know how they would approach this. And they're like, how are you able to sit there and have that conversation and not feel like you don't know or when they try to gloss over you, oh, this is not it because I had other teachers that would just pretty much dismiss me. And I would say to them, if you're dismissing me and I'm an adult, I could imagine what you're doing to my son. And so it was easier to invite some people than others but to know how to advocate for your child that this is the child that you have. And even though at home it might be difficult for you and it might be difficult for you because you have ADHD. Your RSD — rejection sensitivity dysphoria — might be really high and kicking in there because they're talking about your child. 

But I feel like A, do your education, and B, work on your nervous system. I would say, black women, when you get pregnant, it's joyous, but it's nervousness because there's so many things out there that can change the trajectory of your child's life. And then, if you find out about a diagnosis of ADHD or a different diagnosis, I hate to say it, but diagnosis is not a right. It's a privilege. Your nervous system, I would say it's always like on a million because anything that's happening, you're ready to go like fight, fight, freeze, or fall. So something's happening. So to be able to notice how it affects you and to take a second and do some breathing exercises. Learn some, when I say proprioceptive exercises, like doing wall handstands is helpful. Or before your kid comes home when they're going to be bouncing and not wanting to do their homework, things like that. Have a toolkit for yourself to manage yourself so that then you can manage your child. You can manage what you're going to say to the teachers. You can manage yourself in these big meetings because that is how you're going to be able to be effective for everyone. And when you're more effective, you feel better, and the child feels better. And the other people, at some point, they're going to have to either come in with you, or they're going to have to deal with you having to fight with them all the time. They don't want that either. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. Yeah. So whether it's the kids or the other adults. Can I tune back a second because there was something you said at the very beginning, and I know you work with people with ADHD as an adult? And you said you fought to get a diagnosis, and you saw yourself in the rating scales and eventually got your own diagnosis. But you said something about supporting him and advocating for him before you managed your own ADHD. So talk a little bit about that journey and what a difference it made when you started managing your own ADHD. 

IngerShaye Colzie: So it's interesting. It did not occur to me that if I had ADHD, maybe I should manage my ADHD first, which has occurred to me is what normally happens. I think for a lot of people and women, it's like, okay, my needs aside. I have to take care of my kid and my family, and that's what I did. And I'll never forget when I got had a client and her son is a couple of years older than my son, and we were having these conversations because the ADHD, as we know, follows them into adulthood. And when she was like, yes, I got my ADHD treated first. I was like, really? I never thought about it.

Diane Dempster: Ultimately, self-care. 

IngerShaye Colzie: I never thought about it. And I think that that is an important point. We don't think about ourselves putting ourselves to even on the agenda. It never occurred to me till long after this happened. And I guess the thing for me also is I did a lot of things I can't imagine, but I think back of all the things I did, what I decided to do was to work three hart-time jobs instead of one big job so I could go to school because they would call me every day. At some point, I'd have to pick him up most days. One of us had to do it. So it ended up me being me. And I was like, how did you have three jobs? I don't know what I did. And all that movement, all that, the way that it just worked. I did feel like I was killing myself. That's really how I got into coaching because I was like, I don't know how to get off this hamster wheel. I felt like it was a hamster wheel from hell because if I stopped, everything will fall apart. But if I keep going, like I'm going to die. I can't keep this pace up.

So when I started to lose my words, and what I mean by that is I am a psychotherapist. I would go to talk, and I'd have a thought in my brain. The words would be there, but they would not come out of my mouth. I was like, holy crap, do you have early onsets of Alzheimer's? And I remember in one of the deep dives, I think I must have looked at something for myself, women, that it could have something to do with your ADHD. That's when I went to go and get a diagnosis to be sure that it wasn't that or to figure out what it would be.And I found it interesting. It's like, oh, once I did get diagnosed, I don't even know if I was able to take care of my son better or be a better parent. It's just I felt better about myself because it was like, now I know what's happening. And for me, it wasn't that big look back. I mean, my life flashed before my eyes, I think like most people.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: For sure.

Diane Dempster: Everything made sense. 

IngerShaye Colzie: Yes. And it was like, oh but then I was like, now I know what to work on. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, now I can do something about it.

IngerShaye Colzie: Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But what you just said just really struck me is the losing the words. Was that ADHD, or was that the stress from unmanaged ADHD?

IngerShaye Colzie: I think it was from the hormones. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. I've been hearing that a lot lately.

IngerShaye Colzie: Your ADHD. And again, like I had my son a little later in life, and perimenopause and menopause goes on for a long time for women, and I didn't really even understand that. And I will say the stress of all of that did not help any of this, so not sleeping. Are we getting dinner on the table? If we are, when and what are we having? Trying to have a home that's clean. Trying to have some sort of life for myself, or I do have a partner with him, his father.

Diane Dempster: And three jobs and a complex kid. Are you kidding me? That's hard stuff.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It is a lot. 

IngerShaye Colzie: Yes. But I will say, I think for all women, but black women especially, we're used to doing hard things. It's like an expectation. It's actually, we hang our hat on being busy, always doing all of the things. We're used to having labor laid at our feet, and I always say we pick it up and we eat it like potato chips. We even think it tastes good because we're used to that. I got accolades for these things. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I was going to say there's some acknowledgment for it. There's almost - I'm losing my words.

Diane Dempster: Badge of honor.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Badge of honor. That's what I was looking for.

IngerShaye Colzie: Badge of honor, yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And so we want to be busy. We want to be accomplished. We want to do, do, do. And I think it's interesting because, in the world of coaching, we try to slow it down and say, okay, who are you being in the midst of all this doing? And it's the being that changes the tone of the home that changes the environment, right?

IngerShaye Colzie: Absolutely. And when I start with that type of line, people are like, I have no idea what you're even talking about because they're used to doing. What am I supposed to do about this? People say to you, what are you doing with your child? What are you doing? And I'm like, I'm doing all kinds of things, or you need to do something.

Do you think that I'm not doing things? Do you think I'm just sitting here, and things are just happening, and I'm not doing anything? Because that's not true. So you feel like you need to do more, and that's what we're taught to do more. We're not taught to take a second and stand back and go what's happening? First off, how am I manage my emotions at all being considered? I think it's the grief too, and mourning of the child that you think that you were going to have or the expectations that other people put on you about your child. There's some grief in there that we don't even know that we are having and that we get to mourn. 

I think that was the first thing that happened really when I got diagnosed because it was like, if this has been this hard for you for all these years, you see how hard this is on him.  I think we all have regrets as moms of some stuff. It's like, I wish I had done differently.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: If I only known.

IngerShaye Colzie: Yeah. But you can only do what you know to do at the time. When you know better, you do better. I definitely believe that one and learning to do better and even forgiving myself when I still don't do better. Didn't mean I got diagnosed it was like all of a sudden, I was just gracious and was able to handle everything. It still meant that he's still had ADHD. I still had ADHD. I still had a partner. It's just like, I don't even know what's happening here. So by same family, we were at the same school. So it was baby steps to be able to manage this better and knowing that nothing's perfect and this surely was not going to be perfect because I don't want to condemn public schools. I like public schools, but I also think that model of we're only going to be in this little box, and then whatever you can do in this box is the grade. That's who you are, like the A or B that you get when we can be more in like project-based learning and what did you learn and being helpful.I heard about where it's like in other countries you go to the board, and people help you with the problem instead of you going there going, oh my God, they set me up here. I don't know what I'm doing to bring people along. I wasn't able to do that till later. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, I'm hearing that. 

Diane Dempster: So the place I want to go probably after break is you were talking about being just then, and I want the presence that you need as a parent when you're in that advocate role. That's the direction I want to go. Elaine, is that cool?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. So let's take a quick break, and we're back. So you had said you want to talk about being. I was going to ask related to that, like what do you want parents to understand? So where do you want to lead with, Diane?

Diane Dempster: Well, I love the conversation we're having about being versus doing, and we all get stuck in that doing. But if we can take a minute and say, what's important about how you're showing up as a parent, as an advocate, as a support for your kid? There's something in there that you really leaned into that I really want to talk a little bit more about.

IngerShaye Colzie: Talk about being, and so when I say being people, yeah, they don't even understand what that is. I say, who do you want to be in this relationship? Like what would you like to see? I say, if it was vice versa, how would you want that person to be either be with you or be as a human being? And it takes people back, but it's like think about, like maybe what did you need as a child that you weren't getting? It wasn't about something that somebody was doing generally. It was about how they were going to be with you. And when you can take a second and think about that, that usually can have women stop and then have that maybe the conversation I jumped over to, like, maybe I need to be more compassionate. Maybe I need to be with myself. Like I said, giving myself some self-compassion. Maybe I need to be the parent that does have some discipline. What about asking your child what your child needs? What do you need in this moment? Maybe you don't need to pull out your books right away. Maybe what you need is to take a break, and I don't need to make meaning of the fact that it took you an hour to get the books out of the backpack. If you can give the child a little more autonomy and be that person that's allowing that and not worrying about what other people think. I think your child can get the books out of the backpack a little earlier and start their work a little earlier. So that's what I mean by being, and people don't think in these terms. I work with a lot of women who are really pretty high-powered women doing a lot of different things. They're leaders everywhere they go. They're always making a lot of decisions. So the thought of taking a second and slowing down, it's not what they're used to doing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Not in their vocabulary. Yeah. 

IngerShaye Colzie: No. So giving them a space to learn to do that and seeing, we know what happens because you know, that's what coaching. It's a great experiment. It's like, what do you want to try? Try it. Come back and bring your findings, and we'll use them. Take what's working and get rid of the rest and try again because your kids keep changing too. That's important to know. They keep changing too. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I see coaching as creating a space for people to have a conversation with themself. And that's what I'm hearing you describing is inviting people to see themselves differently, to talk with themselves differently. You were sharing before the show that you had some experience with our work several years ago, like five years ago, I guess. As you became an adult diagnosed and were managing yourself and working with your kid, somehow you found our world. Was that before you became a coach, after you became a coach? Where was that on your journey? Do you remember? 

IngerShaye Colzie: You know, I don't remember because the way my ADHD rolls, nothing's in sequential order. Nothing at all.

Diane Dempster: I love that. 

IngerShaye Colzie: And then the pandemic has not helped with that at all. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: For sure. 

IngerShaye Colzie: But I did come across your work in my travels of always looking for something. And I found that interesting that it wasn't about what the kid needs to do, it's about parent and parent training. That's the first thing that they'll probably talk about with you. And I liked your program because it was like you were talking to me, and I found it interesting. I signed up for a few freebies, and then I signed up, I think, for Saturday school. One day I'm in the Marshall, I don't know, probably avoiding something I'm supposed to do.

Procrastination, and the phone rings, and I'm like, it said Impact Parents. I was like, who is this? I thought it was like a troll, and I think it was you, Elaine. I don't remember.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It was probably me because I used to make those calls.

Diane Dempster: Probably her.

IngerShaye Colzie: Yeah. And she's like, hi, Shaye, how are you doing? How's it going with your son? And you know my son's name and everything. And I was, is this for real? Is she actually calling me and asking me how I am doing because no one ever did that. No one ever cared about how I was doing. And I said that was so touching. So now I'm crying in the Marshalls to you. And I appreciate you taking that tear-filled call, but taking the time out and seeing me and caring about me, it meant so much to me. So when I got a chance to meet you and to be on this podcast, I was so excited because when we met, we were with another person who said how your program changed their life with their daughter who had ADHD. And it's just so important because sometimes we feel like we're out here alone on an island, and that is probably the most painful part because when you feel like it's just you and nobody understands, your friends don't understand. Their kids are doing all these wonderful things. They don't really call them. Sometimes your family doesn't understand because they're expecting your kid to act a certain way. You feel like it's just you. So when you find a community or a place or people who accept you and can hold that space for you, I don't know, it was invaluable. So that's what I wanted to tell you before, and I just love sharing that story now.

Diane Dempster: Thank you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thank you. I appreciate you, and I did do a podcast episode with Roxanne as well, and so we'll link to that in the show notes, so I'll make sure you get access to it because it was pretty beautiful. We do need to start wrapping up this conversation. Go ahead. 

Diane Dempster: Yeah, I was going to say, how can people best connect with you, IngerShaye? What's the best way for them to reach out? 

IngerShaye Colzie: I'm @IngerShaye on all the socials. IngerShaye.com for my website, and I have a Facebook group for black women with ADHD. It's black women with ADHD executives and entrepreneurs, and it's a place where we hold space there to have those conversations again that we can't have anywhere else.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And the work that you do is predominantly with black women with ADHD. Is that correct as a coach? 

IngerShaye Colzie: Predominantly. People ask me this question all the time. It's predominantly with black women with ADHD. I have clients from all over. I have clients that are men, so I have different clients. But primarily, that's my focus, and also I've started a nonprofit for black ADHD professionals so it's the ADHD black professionals alliance, and you can connect to that from my website. So it's a help for all things ADHD for black people.

If you want to find someone that's going to help you, doctors, psychologists, coaches, OTs, and you want someone that looks like you, it's a place to be able to find that resource and a place for us to be able to meet, come up with some things that we like to do, and I want to provide some money for people to become coaches. We don't have enough black ADHD coaches and for people to get coaching because coaching's expensive, like let's be real.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It is. 

IngerShaye Colzie: Yeah. So that's a foundation that I'm starting, and I'm really excited about it.

Diane Dempster: Sounds fabulous.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, beautiful, and we'll get links to that. And here, what I want to offer is that private coaching is expensive, and it's profoundly transformational. And that there are a lot of resources, and we'll put those in the show notes as well. We'll link to your organization. There are organizations out there that help you get a coach approach in an affordable way as possible. We do that at Impact Parents that's why there's some training and mixed training coaching. I want to encourage people to get the help that they need in the way that they can do it and to really hold the vision that there are resources available, and we're happy to help people find them. And I know that that's what you're doing as well.

IngerShaye Colzie: Absolutely.

Diane Dempster: We need to wrap it up, but is there anything we haven't touched on that you want to make sure we mention, or do we want to go back and just button up something that we've talked about earlier, IngerShaye?

IngerShaye Colzie: I guess the only thing I always like to say, first off, ADHD is a real diagnosable condition. I know a lot of your families are going to say, that's not real. I don't know what you're talking about, but it is true. It is real, and that you are not crazy, and your child is not crazy. And to just take a second and that, especially if you're a parent, to put yourself on your own list, to put yourself on the list you're doing for everybody else because when you take care of yourself, it will give that space to do things we're talking about and take care of everyone else.

And I just think sometimes when you have a complex one or two or three, or I've people of four and five complex kids, they're like, how do I do that? And even if it's a few minutes in the morning and a few minutes at night, you have made a world of difference for people.

And I guess the last thing is finding a community of people that can see you and help you because I also have group events too to be able to have that for people that aren't as expensive, and there's something about the group process I just want to say that's so transformative in a different way.

Diane Dempster: Absolutely.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love absolutely social groups, and we've been running a series of groups since 2011. Diane and I are still in there leading them. Even though we have this amazing team of coaches and all this, we're still leading them because we love them so much.

Diane Dempster: Amazing. So last little thing, IngerShaye, do you have a favorite motto or a quote that you want to leave our audience with today?

IngerShaye Colzie: They always say the community is key because community, as I said, is healing, so finding a community. So just remembering that community is key. And we sat in our homes for all these couple of years and a lot of things have come out of Facebook where you can find a community or find something where you are. So just community is key. Finding some people that get you.

Diane Dempster: Love that. Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it's so, so true. I think part of the reason that we started Impact all those years ago was because I can't speak for you Diane, but for me, I couldn't find a community that really felt like it clicked and there was ADHD, but that wasn't it because I had a really complex kid. So there was ADHD, there was anxiety, there was autism, there were learning disabilities, and finding a place where I didn't feel so alone-

Diane Dempster: Or judged or whatever.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: -was just huge. So, yeah, I want for everybody listening is to feel connection and to know that you're not alone. IngerShaye, thank you. I am so glad we hung out at the international conference on ADHD and had a great time there, and that's led to new collaboration as professionals, and I really appreciate having you in our space and vice versa. So thank you for sharing with our audience.

IngerShaye Colzie: Thank you for having me. This was so much fun, ladies.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It was great. And I want to acknowledge thank you for the work you're doing because there was this amazing powerhouse group of black women in the conference and bringing a new energy to this community, bringing a new awareness to this community. It was delicious, and I know it's just the beginning. So I really want to acknowledge the work that you and a lot of your friends and colleagues are doing to begin to raise awareness differently in communities of color. And I really honor that. 

IngerShaye Colzie: Thank you. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So thank you for that. To those of you listening, check in with yourself. What are you taking away from today's episode? What insight did you glean as you were listening to IngerShaye talk about her journey and her experience and her work? What is it that landed for you, and what do you want to take forward with you into your week as you move forward in managing yourself or managing your kids, or whatever combination that is for you?

Diane Dempster: IngerShaye, thank you, and thank you, parents, who are listening today and professionals that are listening today for all the work that you're doing for yourself and for your kids. At the end of the day, you make the difference. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Take care, everybody.

Helpful Links:

-Parent Expectations: 2 Steps to Success 

-Parenting is Leadership Guide