Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody. It's another conversation on the Parenting with Impact podcast.

Diane Dempster: It's just us.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Your day is us, and we're going to riff on a topic that comes up a lot in our world.

Diane Dempster: Personally and professionally.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And in every parent we work with, and probably in every relationship dynamic there is. We're going to talk about resentment.

Diane Dempster: Resentment, dun, dun, dun.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's such a complicated issue. We just started talking about it before we started recording. We're like, "No, let's just wait and talk about it on air." Because there are so many different aspects to it.

Diane Dempster: No, because we've just kept going and going, and then we were like, "Stop! Rewind! Let's start from the beginning again." So, resentment.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Resentment. Why does resentment show up in our communities so much? Because it shows up in every dynamic, but especially in ours.

Diane Dempster: It does. And the quote I learned from one of my coaches a long time ago is that "expectations are resentments waiting to happen," right? So we have an expectation, and it doesn't happen. And we don’t adjust our expectation.

It's this ongoing cycle, over and over again. We think it’s going to be different than it is, and we start getting resentful because it’s not changing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. And I guess I look at it similarly. Resentment is often what happens when our expectations aren’t met.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: When we have this vision of what we think it's going to be, it’s usually not as well communicated as we’d like—which we can come back to in a minute. And so, something happens, and it’s really kind of an expression of disappointment.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I think the thing is, in our world, right? So let’s reel it back to parents of complex kids: we feel like we’re doing more than we should be doing, but we don’t know how to help our kids do more. And then we feel like we’re doing everything, and then the things we try don’t work.

I mean, there's this cycle we end up in where it’s like, "I’ve tried everything," and I’m resentful because I’m doing more than I want to be doing, and I don’t feel like I’m making progress.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or I don’t feel like I’m appreciated.

Diane Dempster: Yes, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Sometimes I’m doing what I feel like I should be doing or want to be doing, and you don’t appreciate all that I’m doing for you. And that can create a lot of resentment. I hear this from parents all the time: they don’t appreciate me, they don’t... And the truth is, the gratitude might be 10-15 years away for free.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, sorry. That’s a whole other conversation, which is how do you feel good in the midst of it? How do you give yourself gratitude for what you’re doing? Maybe. Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That kind of goes back to resentment being what happens when people are disappointed in something; it's not meeting their expectations. And whether they've created it or not.

The example I often use is: you put the shoes on the stairs, and you assume they know they’re supposed to take their shoes up the stairs. But they don't, because you've told them to take the shoes up the stairs two weeks ago, and they haven't.

So now, I’m resentful because you're not taking the shoes up the stairs, even though I want you to, and you're not. Therefore, you're doing it to be difficult.

Diane Dempster: Well, and here's the thing...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s a cycle.

Diane Dempster: We all have disappointments, right? And the question is: what turns them into resentment? I think what happens a lot is, I was talking to a mom the other day, and she’s like, "Okay, I know I want it this way, and it's not happening." And when things don't go her way, her go-to is action. So she feels the need to do something about it, right? It's this instinct.

So, we're in this situation with our kids where things aren’t going the way we want them to, but the reality is, it's either we need to be patient, we need to take time, we need to wait for our kids to step up, or it's not ours to do, right? And so, it’s this lack of control, which causes disappointment.

I’m disappointed in this situation, and I don't want to leave it the way it is because it's not okay with me. But I can’t fix it, so I don’t know what else to do. And this is where, right? When we don't know what to do, we go to the mental stuff, right?

So, if I can’t fix the situation, I’m going to worry about it, I'm going to feel resentful about it because it feels better than doing nothing and just letting it sit.

Here’s the transcription with the original intent maintained:

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, the thing that you said at the beginning of that totally got my attention, which is: what turns disappointment or sadness or worry into resentment? Like whatever that precipitating emotion is.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Like, something happens, and I think it has to do with expectation.

Diane Dempster: Well, it has to do with...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Mismanaged expectation.

Diane Dempster: Well, and disempowerment, right? It's sort of, if we feel like we can't fix it, right? It's this natural reaction when we feel disappointed in something or when an expectation isn't met—we want to fix it, we want to change it, we want to do something. And so, if we don't have the power or the ability in this situation to fix it...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So there’s not a sense of agency over it.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There's something about feeling out of control.

Diane Dempster: Right. And then the other piece of it is not feeling seen, right? It's like, if I feel like I've been working my tail off and nobody's noticing... Sometimes we work our tails off, and then something changes, and we feel okay, right?

It’s like, we're working really hard, and we see the progress, and we're like, "Yay, awesome!" And that’s enough for us. But if we’re working really hard, but the progress isn’t as evident, I think most of us need somebody to say, "Hey, you’re working really hard." I mean, "Hey, Elaine, you’re working really hard."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I keep thinking—we’re talking about parents here, but we’re also talking about kids, right?

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: This has kind of been a theme for us today, because we recorded another podcast with Kate Barrett today. And very similarly, what our kids need from us, we need from others, whether it's kids, other adults, coaches, or whatever. And it’s to be seen, it’s to be acknowledged, it’s to be respected, it’s to be understood.

All of those things are every bit as important for us as parents as they are for our kids. And we work really hard to create that for our kids. And then we kind of look out, and we go, if we don’t get it from our co-parent, or sometimes from our kids (although that’s less likely), or maybe from our own parents, or siblings, or friends, that can also begin to build resentment.

Diane Dempster: Well, let’s shift gears, because I think we’ve kind of talked a lot about what leads to resentment and some of the backdrop. I think there’s this transition phase, which is, for me, the reality that resentment doesn’t really help anything.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Like, can we just go into what happens when you get resentful first?

Diane Dempster: Yeah, okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because as you were talking, I’m thinking—like, the biggest shift for me when I discovered coaching, the biggest bar none—probably, I’m gonna say that, and then I’m gonna qualify it.

Diane Dempster: Okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because I like to say absolutes. Was I was so damn resentful.

Diane Dempster: Yeah. Me too.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Everything. Of my kids, my husband, my friends. I resented my friends for seeming to have it so easy, or for not understanding me, or for judging me. My husband wasn’t doing what I needed. My kids... there was so much resentment built up that it was like this wall I created around myself.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But the thing is that it was my wall.

Diane Dempster: Right? And that piece of it—you created it, right? And it’s affecting you. It stresses us out. I mean, any unmet expectation is going to create stress. I mean, that goes back to teaching the trigger management piece.

If we have an unmet expectation, it creates stress in our bodies. And so, resentment is just this ball of... what's the term... catabolic energy, right? It’s this intense, negative energy that kind of lives in our body. It’s hard to carry around. It makes us unwilling to have good things.

I mean, what do they call it? Something bias, where if you’re only focused on the stuff that’s not working, it’s hard to even see the good stuff. And so, resentment is just this buildup of energy in our body. And ultimately, it’s ours.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, there was a quote from a piece I wrote about resentment years ago. I was actually referencing a piece that my husband had written for us even before that. And the notion was that when things crumble in relationships, when they get challenged, it’s usually because of what’s unspoken rather than what’s spoken.

And resentment happens and builds when, as we said, when expectations are out of sync with reality. And we aren’t talking about it, we’re not processing it, we’re not asking for what we want. We’re just growing resentful of the fact that it’s not how we want it to be, but we’re not communicating that effectively.

Diane Dempster: Well, here’s the piece, right? Because I know, I can just hear you all listening, saying this: but it's sort of, you’ve asked for what you want, and the person you’re asking isn’t doing it, but it’s an unrealistic expectation, right? It’s like, if I keep saying, "I just want you to pick up your shoes, I just want you to pick up your shoes," and it's not happening, we can say, "Well, it’s because they don’t care."

Or we can say, "Wow, this person is having a really hard time picking up their shoes. Do I need to help them remember? Do I need to help them pick up their shoes? Or do I need to just pick up their shoes so I don’t feel resentful anymore?"

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But here’s the trap to that, right? Isn’t it not just enough to say, "Can you pick up your shoes?" or "Can I help you pick up your shoes?" Because there’s the "how" we ask, the "how" we’re communicating.

That’s such a key part of this. That’s why we use the coach approach, because we’re shifting. What happens is, we get resentful, and then we start nagging.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? Or then we start reminding or trying to fix it. Well, that example could be an amazing way to approach it, but it could also be just another way of trying to fix them. And that breeds their resentment on top of our resentment, which creates a hot mess.

So it’s really important that we slow down and look at, when I get clear on what I want, what’s the most effective way to communicate and ask for it in a way that’s not confrontational, in a way that’s respectful of the other person, and enrolling them in that process, instead of having them feel like it’s just one more barrier for them.

Diane Dempster: And that it's something that they want to, right? It’s like, I can ask 'til the cows come home, but if I haven’t enrolled them and they’re not interested in doing it… So, there are three things we’ve already identified: the bottom line, the gap in expectations, and I’m not getting what I want.

So part of it may be that I’m tired of asking for it, or I’m afraid to ask for it. We talked about that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There’s that feeling of, “Do I have to do it again?” Yeah.

Diane Dempster: I’m tired of asking for it. It’s like, I’m asking for it, but I’m not doing it in a way that the person is hearing me. I’m asking for it, but it may not be realistic to get from the other person. I mean, there are all these different pieces. I guess what I keep coming back to is this sort of, okay, if you still want to solve it, you want to get rid of your resentment. So, you want to solve the problem, right? And so let’s separate the resentment from solving the problem. Because here’s the reality: If you’re feeling resentment around a situation, you’re not gonna be... I say this gently.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Collaborative problem-solving, right?

Diane Dempster: You’re not gonna be effectively problem-solving, period. It’s this sort of... because you’re gonna be fighting, you’re gonna be blaming, you’re gonna be pointing the finger, you’re gonna be...

Diane Dempster: Irritated, judging. You’re gonna be doing all these sorts of things. You’re gonna be operating from the wrong part of your brain because when all those things happen, you’re in the emotional part of your brain instead of the problem-solving part of your brain. So the reality is, you’ve got to figure out how to move past the resentment on some level to solve your problem effectively.

Let me say that again: You have to figure out how to move past the resentment on some level in order to get to the place where you can even start solving the problem.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. And so, as you say that, there are all these people listening who are like, "Well, if I knew how to do that..." Do you hear the resentment in that? Now, you're resenting us.

Diane Dempster: And that's the piece, right? So I’m gonna go back to what we just said: If you don’t know how to solve the problem, feeling resentful feels better than not knowing how to problem-solve.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s disempowered, right?

Diane Dempster: Yes, exactly. I’d rather feel mad about something than feel out of control, or like a victim.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We’re helpless.

Diane Dempster: Helpless. Yeah, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. So, I think what I’m hearing, right? Is that when we identify resentment—and maybe that’s the way to talk about it—is to really notice when our behavior is coming from resentment, and to begin for ourselves. Because I want to go back to that notion: Resentment is ours. They’re not making us feel resentful. Right?

We are creating that wall. Because it’s too hard to feel disempowered, because we feel helpless, because, blah, blah, blah. We’ve talked about that. But the result of that is that we create this wall, which means we can take down this wall, right? And what I hear you saying, Diane, is in order to effectively problem-solve, to collaboratively problem-solve, we have to take that wall down.

And so the real question is, how do we recognize that we’ve created the wall in the first place and begin to kind of chip away at it?

Diane Dempster: Yeah. Well, and I don’t know about you, but I know what resentment feels like in my body. It’s like this sort of... I drew a picture. I don’t even know if I could probably find it and put it in the show notes or something of the energy. But it’s like a barbed-wire ball, right? It’s this sort of energy that’s probably around my heart when I start feeling resentful, because it’s like this sort of, nobody can get in, nothing’s getting out. I’m just creating this protective shell that’s kind of prickly and uncomfortable and everything else. And so I think, for me, I go back to the body. It’s like, noticing what does it feel like to feel resentful? What are the thoughts that go through your head? Really kind of paying attention to yourself in that state of resentment. To begin to get awareness of it, because so often, we just kind of fall into it. And all of a sudden, we’re there, but we don’t even know that we’re there.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and I think that was definitely key for me, was that I was so resentful, and I was sure. Okay, I’ll listen. I was sure it was everybody else’s problem.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I was sure that it was my kids, and it was my spouse. And that it was that if they would just understand what I was going through, they would see that.

Diane Dempster: And they would do it differently.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So hard, and I was doing so well. And they were the ones that were causing all these problems. And really, underneath that, what was preventing me from addressing all of these problems was my own resentment was in the way. Right?

So identifying resentment is really what we’ve been talking about, is getting really clear on what your stuff is, what your messages are, and getting... And I’ve had this conversation with a lot of clients. And so let’s talk about this for a second.

When I say your resentment is yours, and you’ve created some parents who have a really hard time with that, like they really resist that, how dare you? I’m trying. I’m working so hard. But I’m doing everything for everyone. But...

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Their thoughts on that.

Diane Dempster: Like, and I think that it gets back to this sort of, and thinking about the levels of energy, right? It’s this sort of... so we’ve got... and we haven’t done a podcast on this. But like victimhood, which we were talking about earlier, is the most stress-producing energy.

And then being mad actually is less stress-producing than feeling helpless or feeling like a victim. We want to get to the third...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Catapult you out.

Diane Dempster: Right. Exactly. So we’re just floating down between the most stress-producing energies instead of going, "Okay, what’s the next?" What’s even less stress-producing? Less stress-producing is action. And I think that’s the piece of it, is this sort of... maybe it’s just about doing something productive, right?

So it may be distracting yourself and focusing on another project or another thing or something where you can feel productivity and action. Because then you might get a little bit of an energy boost and then go back to the situation that feels unsolvable.

The other piece of it is to be able to—and this is the language I use all the time—you need to be willing to consider that you can be more effective in solving the problem if you’re not feeling resentful than if you are. If you... I think that’s the piece of it.

You’ve got to be willing to consider that feeling resentful is part of what gets in the way of problem solving.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and so as you said that, what came up—and we’ve alluded to it earlier—is when you’re resentful, you’re blaming.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You can’t not.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You’re resentful because you’re saying that "I resent that situation is put upon me."

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And so whether you're blaming an individual or their circumstances, there's still a blame going on. And when there's blame going on, there's no acceptance of this.

Diane Dempster: Well, and I think that that's the piece of it is that so many of us have tried so many millions of things. And so we do feel like, okay, the only other solution is...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Must be somebody else.

Diane Dempster: It must be somebody else. Right? Must be somebody else. And, I think that that's the piece of it is sort of... we’ve changed our focus, then it’s all about them. And we have zero control over other humans, right? We have influence, but we have zero control.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: True. So it is a truth. You’ll... we can’t control what happens. We can only control how we respond to what happens. And that is the crux of this.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s that when we're trying to control it, when we're trying to control them, we're going to get frustrated and at risk of resentment. When we let go of trying to control it, and start figuring out how to work with it, then we can do that from a place of tolerance or acceptance or respect or compassion.

All these other emotions and thoughts are available to us that aren't available from a place of resentment.

Diane Dempster: And then it takes us back to a place of problem-solving and experimentation, right? That word experimentation was like kicking in, right? Our ability, trying to fix it and solve it and just get it done with, we're going to handle the situation very differently. And the reality is that a lot of the problems that we face as parents require a lot of trial and error and building on what we've done in the past.

And I think those of you who are in our programs will learn, it's like, I've got to figure out which tool am I using right now, where am I taking aim, I mean, all of these sorts of things that are so critical. When you've got a problem, to be able to say, yep, I've had this problem for two years.

Is this where am I in the process? Where am I taking aim? What is the tool that I'm working on? Or do I need to let this problem on the side for a while, go work on something else? Again, that’s sort of, do I feel a little bit more...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Get success under your belt.

Diane Dempster: Right, exactly. It's like, okay, I've been trying to get my kid to pick their shoes up for two years, okay, well, that's a long time to try to solve one problem. Maybe it's your kid's not ready for whatever reason, or you've done everything you can or you need a fresh perspective. But getting into that more experimentation mode can be really helpful.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, what I love about what you're saying and thinking about the number of years it took... I was trying to get my kids to learn to use a calendar. Two out of my three kids now do. The third one isn’t there yet, but it took years. And it’s not like that was all we focused on in those years. There were times where we focused on it, then we'd leave it and go do something else, and then come back to that, and then leave it again to do something else.

So, that notion of, we kind of want to take aim on where we can build some successes and help our kids feel a sense of success. We can take aim on something that’s in it for them. Because as they start feeling more successful, that in itself will begin to reduce some of our resentment.

If they can work with us on anything, even if it’s not the issue we thought was the primary one—whether it’s the towel on the floor or the laundry or food all over the kitchen. We start getting resentful after we’ve told them a million times. Why can't you just stop eating in the living room?

Diane Dempster: Well, which takes us back to the thing we talk about all the time, which is focusing on something that's their agenda, right? It’s sort of, if you can find a change that they want to see, something that they want different, even if it’s like, "I want mom to stop nagging me about my shoes in the hallway," okay, so that's the agreement.

It’s like, "I’ll commit to not nagging you about the shoes in the hallway. What I need from you is to identify something else that we are working on so that we can see some change in progress and create some focus."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. So, we need to start wrapping up this conversation. I feel like we did a great job talking about resentment—identifying where it comes from, how it shows up, and our ownership of it. I’ll point out that we'll put in the show notes an article on the site called Resentment in the Time of Quarantine, which gives you some tools, a three-step process to use communication strategies specifically designed around addressing resentment.

What else do we want to say before we wrap this up? Diane, what have we missed or want to make sure to cover?

Diane Dempster: Here’s what I want to say to wrap up, right? Be gentle with yourself. Elaine and I both talked about just how big that word resentment was in our lives. I didn’t talk a lot about my story, but you've heard it. And it’s hard. This stuff is hard. It’s a normal, natural reaction to the mind-numbing challenges we face every day as parents.

So, be gentle with yourself and be willing to consider that there’s a lighter way, an easier way, a more gentle way—something that doesn’t stress you out so much.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And it starts with us. And, on some level, what we haven't said yet—this is where I want to wrap it up—is that we talk a lot about how our perspective creates our reality. How we see something will influence how we take action as a result.

And resentment is a perspective. Right? When we hold resentment, we're looking at it through a lens that says something like, “You don't care,” or “You don't love me,” or “You're not motivated,” but it carries an energy that doesn’t help us, as we’ve said all along, with problem-solving.

So, I think what we’re really saying is: think about what else could possibly be true. What’s another perspective that you can hold that could serve you in moving towards problem-solving?

Diane Dempster: Awesome. Great conversation.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Always. Thanks, everybody. Remember, what you do for yourself, you do for your kids. It matters. It makes a difference. So be conscious, be intentional, be kind to yourself. Show yourself some love, and we’ll see you on the next one.

Diane Dempster: Thanks, everybody.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Take care, everyone.