Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody, to another conversation in the Parenting with Impact podcast. We are thrilled to be here with you today. And once again, it's Diane and Elaine with the world according to Diane and Elaine.

Diane Dempster: Just us, you got us today. We're talking about a topic that we hear a lot from parents and I guess I would introduce it by saying what do I do if my co-parent isn't on the same page that I'm on?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or sometimes it comes in as I want to get us on the same page, or sometimes it comes in as I really can't get this help because we're not on the same page. There are all these variations of how parents show up with this topic.

Diane Dempster: I guess the bottom line is for no other reason, then you're in a different place than your co-parent is whether it's because you're ready to get help and your co-parent isn't whether your co-parent thinks that the diagnosis is a bunch of hoo-ha, whether your co-parent has a hard time following through because they have their own neurodiversity or triggered and has a hard time self-managing, and they're arguing and fighting with you or your kids all the time. I mean, there's so many different flavors of this that you said Elaine.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So I think what you're describing is what does it mean to not be on the same page? That can show up in so many different ways, depending on it to some extent so many different factors and we want to be on the same page but we don't always know what that means. So let's look at that for a minute. What might that mean?

Diane Dempster: I think the other piece of it is not just what does it mean but is that really important? I mean, I think that that's the piece of it is part of what makes it important is that if we feel like we're on the same page, there's no conflict and I think that that's probably-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: A lot of us don't like conflict. It's true.

Diane Dempster: A lot of us don't like conflict, or we don't like to disagree, or we think that it's like being in harmony but I think that that's a whole other conversation about navigating disagreements and conflict.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Let's take this position, okay, there's a relative merit to parents creating a unified front in a relationship with their kids. That doesn't mean you have to agree or "be on the same page," but you want to be co-parents supporting each other in relationship with the kids. Is that fair?

Diane Dempster: It is and it's really funny you say that because it's like, I used to joke with my parents because they would never argue with each other in front of us. And there was a story that I created myself that they were in agreement on everything, but I realized as a grown up, I'm like, I bet that may not have actually been true.

They just may have been really good about not having an agreement that they weren't going to disagree in front of us because they wanted to, like you said, present a unified front.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Unified front. I remember struggles with my husband early on, when I would say something that he thought would undermine him in front of the kids, but I wasn't able to support his position, because I really disagreed with it.

And so I was trying to respect him, but also be able to disagree so it can create a whole bunch of confusion, right?

Diane Dempster: Right. I was to say, let's go back to what we mean by not on the same page. So it may be that your partner is disruptive. It may be your-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Let me say differently, that one partner is disrupted because we don't know who's listening and we want to be really, even here.

Diane Dempster: And because sometimes I think you were just describing this, I feel like we're a little bit all over the place, we'll have to bring ourselves back in a minute. But you were talking about the fact that you felt like you had to be disruptive because you weren't in alignment with what your co-parent was doing and he saw that as undermining.

There's a dynamic there where you're feeling like, oh, my gosh, I got to do something which is disruptive on some level.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Sometimes it was. If we pull back and we say, okay, our part of the goal of parenting is to be in a relationship, one-to-one with our kid. But then there's this next layer, then we want to be in a relationship with the co-parent and then the two of us in a relationship or sometimes these days more than two of us in relationship with our kids so you have relationships happening on multiple layers.

And part of what I think makes it complicated is we don't differentiate. When parents come to us and they say I'm not sure I can do this because my co-parents are not on the same page. What we usually say is this is about you and your relationship with your child and you can have a huge impact in your relationship with your child, regardless of who else is in the picture.

So that's one really important place for us to look is to remember that all it takes is one parent to turn the ship because we have a relationship with our kid. I see, go.

Diane Dempster: And what I was going to say is like the dance. We talk about changing the dance or changing the recipe.

Even if you're the only parent that does something different if you begin to do something different, it's going to change the dynamic of the family. It has to by definition. It may not feel the same as if it were lockstep with your co-parent, but don't feel like you can't make change, or make even impactful sustainable change, just because your co-parent isn't there.

And honestly and this is part of your storyline sometimes when one parent says, okay, you know what? I'm going to do whatever I can. The other parent goes away, something's different. This feels weird. This feels different. What do I do here?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and that was really my story was that clearly what we were doing wasn't working. As I started getting coaching, I started changing the way that I was interacting. And at first, my husband was not on board, and it was almost resistant.

And then over time, he did get on board. And when I asked him what happened, he said, I couldn't deny anymore that what you were doing was working. But understand at first, it was just me in relationship to my kids that was working.

That was where the change started and then he started playing with us a little bit more consciously and collaborating with us. And then he joined in. And then that's when it became more about him and I working together to support the kids, instead of me just focusing on the kids so that's what I mean by those layers.

Diane Dempster: So that's one of the first big pieces is even if your co-parents not on the same page in terms of doing something different, you can do something different, make a huge difference in the family and we can't all promise that all co-parents are going to end up like your husband-wise Elaine but-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: He's one of a kind for sure.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, one of a kind. But so just know that even if you're the only one making change, change can still happen if it's only one of you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: One parent to turn the tide or turn the ship.

Diane Dempster: The other piece I want to talk a little bit about is like the triggered active conflict kind of situation where maybe your co-parent is either in conflict with one of your kids. I had a mom the other day who's her 18-year-old daughter and her husband, constantly in conflict and in battle with each other.

And it's just really hard for her to be around. And she was like trying to get in the middle and figure it out and figure out how to be nice and fix the relationship.

We had a long conversation about the concept of the Drama Triangle and I don't think I'm going to teach about the Drama Triangle. But the bottom line is you have a relationship with your daughter. You have a relationship with your husband. They have a relationship with each other.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They have a relationship with each other.

Diane Dempster: It's like that third edge of the triangle is like the third rail and on the train, you just don't go there. You stay on your side and your relationship with your child and you can help your child have more of a healthier relationship with your co-parent.

You can help your co-parent have a healthier relationship with your child, but you can't fix what happens in between them if that makes sense.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It totally makes sense. And I really want to really want to talk about this a little bit more and highlight this because one of the things that's become super clear to me in this work with both our clients, but also with some friends, where I've been in these navigations particularly when there's a divorce but even when there's not a divorce there's conflict just in the family dynamic.

The hardest part for a parent, I believe, in many ways is to accept that you can't control what the other parent is going to do. And so oftentimes, our job as parents, and again, this is particularly true in the divorce is to help our kids figure out how to be in relationship with your co-parent, their other parent, particularly if you're the parent that sees what's going on with the kid and the other parent is resisting that in some way.

Diane Dempster: I think that the thing I want to just put a pin on is that it's from your child's perspective. If your child's not complaining or having a difficult time and you're watching and you're like oh I don't like what's going on you know you really want it to be their agenda.

You want to figure out what your child's agenda is for change and support that and not try to get it to be something that is your agenda. I did this for years.

I wanted my kids to have the same relationship with their dad that they had with me. And it's like, it's not going to happen. You can't do that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You can only want that so much. You can't. So I think maybe what's coming up clear for me here is that we need to differentiate to some extent between when there's a divorce, and you really are in a divorce situation very much being conscious about how you speak about your co-parent in front of your kids, because you want your kids to stay in relationship with your co-parent most of the time, ideally.

And so there's a role that you play there, that's very different than if you are still married and living in the same home. You and I have very different experiences that way.

 

Diane Dempster: Yeah. Again, when you're talking about relationships with other people, you have to really go back to what can you control and what can't you control and this is where you were suggesting earlier. You can't make your co-parent do something different.

I mean, you can encourage them, you can support them, you can model for them. I mean, all of these things are important.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You can ask.

Diane Dempster: You can ask. Whoa, wait, this isn't right. It's just a lot of you dealing with co-parents who have their own neurodiversity. So even if you ask them to do something different, if you ask them to try to be calm with the kids, their ability to self-manage their triggers may be different than your ability.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They may not be there yet.

Diane Dempster: They may not be there yet, or they may really want to be able to do it but their ability to follow through, they may be so distracted. I had a mom last week who was saying her husband was so distracted, that he just did not have the time or energy to be around the kids or be helping out unless he swooped in and just did everything.

And that wasn't helpful because it was completely different than the way she would handle it. So it was like this all-or-nothing thing that she ended up with.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So this just in my turn, is that you're going to handle it differently and that's okay. I want to be careful. I don't want to demonize parents with ADHD who can't self-regulate. Sometimes it's parents without ADHD or the parents of anxiety who can't self-regulate so calm is the goal of the day from our perspective.

But the piece that really came up, as you were talking about, was that part of it is about not only having unique relationships with each child, but we're going to parent differently and to be on the same page does not mean to do it the same way.

I don't have to parent like you have to parent the same way in order to be on the same page with you. And so part of the game here is to really understand what our natural propensities are when I'm the good cop, and you're the bad cop or when I'm the one that's handling these issues, and you're handling those issues.

Ideally, when you get to a collaborative relationship with your co-parent, it's to understand that neither of our styles is right or wrong, that they are different. And we want to help our kids learn to respect the differences without making one or the other of us wrong. What comes up?

Diane Dempster: The other thing that comes up as you're saying that Elaine is that there may be places where you do disagree and that's okay. And if we focus on that, it's going to cause all kinds of conflict and stress for ourselves.

If we take our stance and say, okay, wait a second, instead of looking at all the things that my co-parent doesn't agree with me on, have I started looking for the things, those places that we are in alignment with? Even if we're not in agreement, if we can line up, we have the same goal, we might approach the goal in different ways.

It sort of but if we can say, yep, I'm fiercely committed to having a family that is respectful of one another, you can work together towards joint respect, even though you may approach how to do that in a different way.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So I love what you're saying and I want to highlight it because what you're talking about in the coaching framework is the difference between agreement and alignment. I've written about this in the book and we talked about it.

This is a very classic coaching concept. So the notion of alignment is that the bigger picture is like to keep the issue out there. What Diane just said, we are aligned, that we want a family that's respectful to each other. We may be aligned that we want a family that enjoys each other or is kind to each other or whatever that is for you, whatever your values are.

How we're going to get there may be different for me and for my husband but we hold a vision together and share a vision with each other of what's important for both of us as a family. And that allows us to agree to disagree because we're still holding the same vision.

And we can try different things and experiment in different ways because there's no one right or wrong way to get there.

Diane Dempster: And here's a concrete example because I'm creating a new family. I've been in a relationship with my partner now for three and a half years. And he's now in a relationship with my kids, one of my kids lives with us.

I mean, we're in this different environment and just that language of respect. When he first started interacting with us, one of the things that created a connection for my kids and I was the language we used, and I started using their language.

I curse like a sailor. I mean, honestly, when I'm around my kids, I'm really comfortable using their kind of language and it's part of what connects us. And so here's this new person coming in and listening to us using language that he was just like, oh, my gosh, your kids use this language and you're using this language, he was kind of appalled quite frankly but it was part of our family dynamic.

And so my kids learned, you know what, we don't do that in front of the new co-parents. Exactly. And it was a great lesson for them that, when it's awesome, we're alone. This is how we are. When we're together as a group we all modify and out of respect for this person who sees it differently. modify our behavior.

And that's the thing that kids learn and know, mom might be different than dad might be different than grandma and grandpa. I mean, all of these things that happen.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What you're saying is, it's really cool that everybody's got different boundaries. And if we can in our families, be mindful of and respectful of the different boundaries that people have, in a way, that's ultimately what it means to be on the same page in some ways.

 

Diane Dempster: Yeah. There's going to be an exception to that because I like listening to people chiming in my head. I mean, if you've got a kid on the spectrum, or if you've got a young kid, who does have a hard time knowing, okay, wait, I have to do this one way, with mom, and this that another way with grandma, or with dad, or whatever.

You're going to want to try to bring it in a space that's easier for them to navigate so that it's not so fiercely different at one house or the other if possible.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or expect that it's going to take them longer to be comfortable with it. So I was writing a piece that we're putting together on leadership and parenting. And what was coming up was the realization that when we put routines and structures and systems in place, the reason we're really doing it is to communicate the expectations for our kids to help them feel safe and comfortable and protected and to know what boundaries are.

And then where I think we forget is we put the systems in place, and we expect them to just jump in and be 100% there. In fact, what we need is to allow them time to become comfortable with it and to embrace it little bits and little bits at a time.

And it's very similar to what you're talking about. It's like, it's one thing to say this is how you handle things with mom. And this is how you handle things with that parent but it's another to be able to expect them to do it all right away 100% like there's got to be some space and some grace.

Diane Dempster: Well, space and grace and remember, we're dealing with complex kids and so a lot of times the systems or the expectations or whatever else from one co-parent or from the other may not be realistic for their level of executive function.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Let's talk about that. So how do you deal with it when you understand that your co-parent's expectations for your child are incompatible at the moment with your child's developmental capacity? Your kids have a developmental delay of three to five years.

I think he should be able to do this on his own and you know he's just not ready to. How do you handle it?

 

Diane Dempster: Well, I was just going to say send them to listen to the Impact Parents podcast.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Sanity School but beyond that.

Diane Dempster: But before that, you want to start with compassion. I think that's one of the things like, if you disagree with anyone, the place to start is compassion and understanding and curiosity, really demonstrating in a relationship that you want to understand their perspective, you want to hear and understand where they're coming from.

I mean, you want to hold your breath for a little bit and bite your tongue for a little bit while you really do listen and hear where they're coming from. Again, you start with the alignment. Yeah, I really want this as well and here's what I notice.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Here's what I hear where we both agree where we both have a vision that we share.

Diane Dempster: Yeah, we have a shared vision and here's this other piece of information that I've heard that I really think is applicable and you educate. It's where you bring in some of the information that you're learning from our podcast or from Sanity School or wherever.

 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What you're describing comes to me as the ACE method, acknowledge their experience really, really acknowledge what their perspective is. It's real for them, whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't matter, because that's their perspective, and have compassion for that, have some grace for that, be able to be with it, and hear it and listen to it.

And then as you explore your options, it may allow you to say, I have this new bit of information like you were just saying, are you willing to consider this possibility? Would you be willing to try one little thing, so that you're asking them to work with you on something which they're much more likely to comply with if you have truly acknowledged and heard their perspectives.

Diane Dempster: One of the things that I think is important, when you talk about compassion and acknowledgment, is we don't have to agree with someone to acknowledge their worldview. I mean, if I say this all the time, it makes perfect sense that you'd see it that way because of your life experience, your view of the world, your childhood, your whatever else.

I mean, it's not saying that I agree with you, or that it's even okay, because there's sometimes we really do fiercely disagree with another adult's perspective, that doesn't mean we can't hear them and understand them.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And that acknowledges that it's real for them.

Diane Dempster: And acknowledge that it's real for them.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. So I think we need to wrap up this conversation. As usual, it's fascinating. We are so lucky we get to play with each other in this sandbox, and so many. So how do you want to wrap this up? What do you feel like we focused on?

Diane Dempster: I feel like we focused on this whole idea of what it means to be on the same page, and the value even of being on a different page and looking for alignment and instead of agreement.

We talked a little bit about the relationship, not getting in the middle of our kid's relationship, but to support our kids in having relationships with your co-parent. We talked a little bit about how to handle disruptive triggered adults, although we might be able to talk a little bit more about that. Go listen to one of our things on triggers. We talked about that all the time.

 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I was going to say, yeah. There's so much on that. So if you had an insight you were taking away, and I want those of you who are listening because we've talked about all of this different stuff around being on the same page with a co-parent, what's the insight that you're taking away? What do you think of this? Do you have one?

Diane Dempster: Yeah, my insight is that, honestly, that sometimes there's value in not being on the same page and it's just we were trained to feel like, oh, my gosh, conflict is bad. And it's like, disagreement is bad. But if you can be skilled and savvy and focus on the baby steps or the places of alignment, sometimes those disagreements can turn into opportunities. What about you?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There's so many things. One of the things that actually jumped out at me was I want to remind me and us to be really careful not to go to that place that makes the ADD parent wrong and really remember that we all play a role in this.

Just because one person is more organized than another or more self-regulated than another, whatever doesn't always make it right, that there's still as you said, there's so much that we all have to offer.

And if we can honor what we each bring and focus on the strength of it, instead of looking at the, what you're doing wrong, or what I'm doing wrong. That's where we move forward.

Diane Dempster: This is what came up in just what you said, is that underneath a lot of this, and it's not just for ADHD adults, but I do see it often more in ADD adults is that there's a layer of maybe guilt or shame or trauma.

If you've got an adult with ADHD, there's a lot of adults with ADHD who were not well managed, were not even acknowledged when they were kids who end up creating stories about behavior.

And so it's a protective coating that they've developed maybe because in their childhood, they were pushed harder than their brain was able to manage and so having some compassion for that, because it's a really common pattern I think it's also another place to think about.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And particularly when it's married to a spouse with anxiety. They tend to find each other and then they tend to sometimes struggle with each other.

So that's maybe another conversation for another time. So for now, y'all thanks for listening. As always we're thrilled to be with you and love to be doing this podcast and knowing that you're listening here makes a huge difference for the life of yourself and your kids.

Diane Dempster: Thanks for being here.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Bye, y'all.