Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody to another conversation in Parenting with Impact. I am thrilled to have you here today for this conversation with Shelly Lefkoe.

You can read all about her in the show notes and what I want to tell you about Shelley is the beauty of the work that I get to do in the world is that sometimes I get to meet my sheroes, and Shelley is somebody who I was introduced to longer ago than either of us look old enough for it to be and who was a parenting expert back in the days when I was still trying to figure all this out before I became a coach before I started Impact Parents. And Shelley was one of the people who I learned from back in the early days.

I remember I found the notes from a webinar I did with you probably 15 years ago recently. I know. It's really kind of cool. We have a lot of intertwining. Her husband was a colleague of mine and so there's been a lot of connection over the years but it's a pleasure to invite you back and to have this conversation with you today because you have a particular spin on parenting, particularly younger, young kids.

And so I'm excited to have this conversation. So here's how I want to start. Tell us about what it is you do this spin you take this approach you have and how you got to be doing this work with families.

Shelly Lefkoe: Yeah. It's so good to be back and to see you. I like parenting educators because they are parenting experts. What's really funny is when you said it the first time this is the first time I ever said, yeah, I am an expert but I'll tell you why.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because you've been parenting a long time.

Shelly Lefkoe: No, that's not why and that's why I don't like parenting experts because I've been parenting a long time and I'm still trying to figure it out. But why I do think I'm an expert, is because of how I got into it and what I do all day. So about 30 years ago, my husband was looking at his own life and why he knew to do things and wasn't doing them and things were supposed to turn out and didn't.

And he says he downloaded but he created this process that was based on the philosophy that our beliefs about ourselves in life, most of which are unconscious, we don't even know that we have them totally determine our behavior, our emotions, our reality. So when I say a belief, what I mean by a belief is a statement about reality that you believe is the true truth.

We started working in corporations, but at some point, we started working with individuals and I started working with people and they would come to me, and I would say how can I serve? And they'd say, well, I procrastinate. I can't stand up for myself. I worry about what everybody else thinks about me. I don't speak up. I have fears and anxiety all the time.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I don't feel like I'm good enough. I don't feel like I deserve it. We could keep going, right?

Shelly Lefkoe: Right. So I would listen to what we call patterns or places where people feel stuck. And then I would say, given what I do, what do you believe that has you not do those things or do those things if you don't want to do those things?

And I would help them uncover these unconscious beliefs. And you said, the most common belief that people have is I'm not good enough. Now, Elaine, I have clients now because I work on Zoom. I had a client yesterday in Kuwait.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I'm with you. Me too. 

Shelly Lefkoe: I mean, It's amazing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Anywhere in the world. 

Shelly Lefkoe: Anywhere in the world. So I'm talking to these people in every country in every culture and they will have the same beliefs where did these beliefs come from? So the first year or two that I started doing this, I would say, where did you get the belief I'm not good enough? And they'd say, well, when I was a kid, my parents criticized me all the time.

Oh, where did you get the belief I'm not important? Well, my parents were working all the time, or they were busy all the time that they were playing tennis and they never paid attention to me. Oh, well, where did you get the belief that you are not worth loving and that you stay in these crappy relationships?

Oh, well, when I was a kid, I never got kisses and hugs and I never got told I'm loved when I was a kid. So it suddenly dawned on me, oh my goodness, if we could change the way people parent if we could transform parenting, we could stop the suffering on this planet.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So I want you to say that, again, if we can transform parenting, we can stop the suffering on this planet.

Shelly Lefkoe: 100%.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's a profound statement.

Shelly Lefkoe: And I don't care what party you're at. I don't care what religion you are. I don't care because if you don't believe that people can be trusted, and people are out to get me and my way is the right way and my religion is the right religion and black people are bad, and all of these beliefs that we have, we will stop the suffering on the planet. I mean, I'm not kidding and I have big dreams to do that. So now I want to make something very, very real. This is really important because I am a very pragmatic person. I am not woo-woo and whatever. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You gotta make it. You have to apply it in everyday life. 

Shelly Lefkoe: Exactly. Now, everybody listening I'm hoping you have little kids, or you remember when your kids were little. So I want you to answer this question. When you come home at the end of the day, what do your children do when they see you? Every client in every country, in Uganda, my clients said, they run to me. And I say, oh, and what did they want? So answer that question. What do your kids want at the end of the day? They want three things: affection, attention, and acknowledgment.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yep, it's pretty much it. We could say in this podcast right now that you would have everything you need and yet, you're still going to get more so what do they want? Affection, attention, acknowledgment.

Shelly Lefkoe: Right. Now, what is the one-word question that every young child asks all day long? So if we were doing this live, I would say type it in the chat box and I did this with hundreds of people the other day, and they're writing. Why? People who don't have kids know the answer to that question. Why can't I have a playdate?

Why do I have to go to sleep? Why can't I have dessert? Why can't you play with me? Why do you have to go to work? Why do I have to go to school? Why is the sky blue? So if you criticize your kids, they're going to ask why can't I live up to my parent's expectations? Oh, I see. I'm not good enough. Why are they not paying attention to me? Oh, I see. I'm not important.

Why are they walking around going, oh my God, this child is so difficult. Oh, I must be difficult. Now I had one of those, okay, I had a child who I used to say do you want to breathe? No. I was like that. And today she is an extraordinary young woman.

She's extraordinary but she had some work to do because I never said you are because I would never say to a child you are. But when I really got to my wit's end, I would say, sweetheart, why do you have to be so difficult? She still heard it as I'm difficult. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I'm difficult. I often say our kids will make up a story based on the experience. Oftentimes, in my realm parents are talking about whether or not they should share a diagnosis with their kid.

I often say if you don't give them an explanation for what's going on, what they're going to make up is a whole lot worse. They're going to make up if I'm lazy, crazy, or stupid. And what I'm hearing you saying is our kids are making up a story.

Shelly Lefkoe: But here's why. Everybody says that. They're making up a story like-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But there's a good reason why. I'm not undermining it.

Shelly Lefkoe: No, I understand and I appreciate it but everybody knows this is true. They're making up a story. That's true but here's what people don't understand. It's because they think now listen, this is the most important thing you're going to hear as a parent.

And I say that because it's 30 years of asking the question that I'm going to share with you. Doesn't it seem like as a child, you saw, I'm not good enough, you saw I'm stupid you saw there's something wrong with me. And every single person says I did see that at which point, I say, now listen, you I'm going to, it's impossible to not believe something you think you saw.

So if somebody said to you, well, Shelly's a blonde. You'd say, no, she's not. She's a redhead and you'd say, no, she's blonde. And you'd say no, she's a redhead. They couldn't [overlapping]

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I saw the redhead. I'm not going to believe that it's blonde.

Shelly Lefkoe: Exactly. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Got it.

Shelly Lefkoe: Or Shelly hates flowers. No, she doesn't. I saw on every podcast she does she has flowers. She doesn't hate flowers. This is why 10, to 15 years of therapy may help you cope with life, but it doesn't get rid of your beliefs.

I have worked with Harvard PhDs who had the belief I'm stupid because they still think they saw it. One of my Harvard PhD students said to me, my father now I know you guys don't do that because you're conscious enough to be on a podcast like this but his father used to smack him on the back of the head and say, genius, every time he didn't do something he wanted.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There's a clear message. 

Shelly Lefkoe: So if the child thinks they're seeing there's something wrong with them, that's what they're going to believe. So what you need to focus on is whether you tell them about their diagnosis or don't tell them, you have to be careful that it's not a box.

So beliefs are boxes. People always say limiting beliefs. All beliefs limit you. Even if they limit you in a good way. If something is true, it's true. There's nothing that can't be true about that. So a belief is a box and if your kids think that they have this thing, and therefore.

So my suggestion is that you share stories with them or show them evidence that kids like them and all you have to do is Google successful people with ADD or successful people who had-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Anxiety or dyslexia or whatever it is that you're dealing with.

Shelly Lefkoe: Dyslexia, exactly. You'll find thousands because your grandson was and this one was in that one.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And all these suspicions are now in hindsight, look back and say, oh, he must have been or she must have been. So show them evidence that kids like them turn out fabulous is what I'm hearing. 

Shelly Lefkoe: Yes, exactly. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Shelly, I used to say to one of my kids all the time, you're going to be an amazing adult. We just got to get you there. Adulthood that's going to be your time. You're going to be amazing. It wasn't your hard work. School is hard. Life is hard. Socializing is hard. Whatever it was, was like acknowledging what was hard for them.

Shelly Lefkoe: For them, yeah. And so these grand statements, anytime you say whatever you say after that is not true. There is no, as my husband used to say. We made him a sweatshirt that says there is no is. There is no truth.

We have no idea what's going to happen. Now if we had a lot of time, I can teach this to you pretty quickly. This tool will save your life. You will write to me and you'll say, Shelly, this is a game changer but I'm going to blow your head open.

I wasn't going to teach this but you just opened such a Pandora's box for me. So what we realized was that what causes all of our emotions and this is about how you respond to your kids because how you respond to your kids obviously is a game changer. That's what my-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You can't control what happens. You can control how you respond to what happens.

Shelly Lefkoe: Perfect. And nobody's expecting you to be a perfect parent. I obviously was not a perfect parent, nobody's a perfect parent, and you can do this to minimize the damage. So we give meaning to events all day long.

Your spouse doesn't kiss you, hello, oh, he's having an affair, or she doesn't love me anymore. If your child gets a C or gets in trouble in school, oh God, then if they were going to get into college, then this is never going to work out. I'm a terrible mother. My kid is whatever.

We catastrophize. So we give meaning to events all day long. And even if we don't catastrophize if your child comes home and says, all the kids hate me.

You go, oh, God, he's never going to have any friends. So it's just meaning we give meaning to events. People who play golf, they hit three bad shots and they go, oh, I suck at putting, and then boom.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's why somebody wears the same dirty socks before every game because they've decided that's what helps them win the game. 

Shelly Lefkoe: Exactly. That's brilliant. I'm going to use it because I love it. They gave meaning to the fact that they won a couple of games with these socks now. If you walk into a room and somebody and somebody doesn't say hello to you, what might you automatically think?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You make assumptions.

Shelly Lefkoe: Give me one.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They don't like me.

Shelly Lefkoe: They don't like me. They're rude. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: They don't want to see me. 

Shelly Lefkoe: They don't want to see me. Whatever you said, even if it was positive, where did that meaning come from? They don't like me. They're rude. Where did the meaning come from?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: From my own assessment of how I feel people are going to treat me or think about we [overlapping]

Shelly Lefkoe: Everybody complains that this meaning comes from your mind. Period.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, from my thoughts. 

Shelly Lefkoe: He's having an affair. They don't like me. He doesn't love me anymore. She's mad at me. She doesn't want to be my friend. I'll never get this job. All of those meanings come from inside your mind. If meaning is inside your mind, do events have inherent meaning?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: In and of themselves? No.

Shelly Lefkoe: No. And I use an example. I have a better one. I always use the example. My husband died. I miss him every minute of every day but the events have no meaning. In other words, it doesn't mean I'm going to starve to death.

It doesn't mean I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life. It doesn't mean I'll never be happy again, and another way of saying this, and this is really powerful you don't know anything for sure because something happens. So when your child does something or doesn't do something and the moment you have a negative emotion, and this is a practice, stop and ask yourself, what just happened?

Okay, what meaning did I just give what just happened? Come up with one other possible meaning. Well, it could be he's different now but that doesn't mean he's always going to be different or it could mean he's having a temper tantrum because something is malfunctioning in his brain and it could mean he's just tired.

But the fact that he did was said that doesn't have meaning. Just because he has ADD now doesn't mean he always will. I know lots of kids who outgrow it. I think-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I'm going to challenge you there who learned to manage it and navigate it. It does wiring up the brain but their capacity to manage it and learn to live with the brain shifts as they mature into it. 

Shelly Lefkoe: Got it now. I think I might have been diagnosed with ADD as a kid now I don't know if it would be the brain ADD but I'm one of those people who is like, look something shiny. Oh, my kids always make fun of that.

It's like mommy's like, oh, look something shiny but I've learned how to focus. I've learned how to listen. I've learned how to concentrate. I have ways in which I do things. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: If you did and I don't know if you do but if you did have ADHD, one of the manifestations of ADHD is the ability to hyperfocus. So yes, you may be distracted but yes, you also have the capacity to regulate and really hyper-focus on something that you're really interested in. Yeah, that's a great example.

Shelly Lefkoe: So anyway, this was like a complete download for me to share this with you if you can get that what's happening is out there and the meaning is in your mind, and you don't know anything for sure because that's happening I'm never going to get to sleep, I'm never going to sleep again. This is never going to stop. My life is ruined. None of that is true.

It really isn't. So the moment you get that the meaning is in your mind, not in the event the emotion will go away. So normally what I talk about I never talked about, particularly in parenting.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Oh, we talked about it all the time, all the time, in terms of how you escape a stress cycle because we have this story that we tell ourselves. You're calling a meaning.

It's a little different, but it's similar. And when we can make up a new story or a series of stories and choose a different story, we can take action based on a different perspective. I love that you bring it up here because it's a really helpful concept for us as parents to realize that we can change what we're telling ourselves.

What I'm hearing you saying behind that is we can change the meaning we give to something. We don't have to ascribe meaning to something in a way that's not serving us.

Shelly Lefkoe: But bigger than changing the meaning, yes. But if you go one step further, and get that the event has no meaning. Not that it doesn't matter that your kid is banging his head on the wall, or whatever they're doing it may matter, there may be a consequence but it doesn't mean we don't know anything for sure because that's what's happening in this moment.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Agreed. Yeah. Love it. 

Shelly Lefkoe: The meaning is in your mind. It's not in the events. Yeah. So going back to my soapbox is be careful what you say and do your facial expressions. If you're going to ask my favorite quote and I just went I don't know, but but I do know, I have a favorite quote. But one of the things is that the world has never been changed by well-behaved women. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And you have that bumper sticker.

Shelly Lefkoe: I just love that bumper sticker, yeah. I had a bumper sticker. This is this little levity. So I was at a rally and I bought and I had this bumper sticker that said, it is never okay to hit a child. And after a few years with my daughter, Brittany, I was seen scraping off never.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's sometimes okay. 

Shelly Lefkoe: No, I never hit her. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I'm confident.

Shelly Lefkoe: But that was my sticker.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, so, so we need to start ringing this conversation its circle, which is we have a few more minutes, but I just want to sort of, not recap, but sort of bottom line where we are and make sure that we have space to sort of add anything else you want to make sure you include.

Shelly Lefkoe: So I'm not a skills and tools girl and I have skills and tools. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I would say the same thing. I love that.

Shelly Lefkoe: This is what rests on my computer. So this is my eight CD, which of course [inaudible] streaming, but it's my eight CD parenting course. And I do have lots of skills and tools, to validate feelings, all this stuff that I'm sure other podcast guests teach you. So I'm not saying I don't have skills and tools because of course you need to have your arsenal full of-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But you have to have the concepts skills and tools work with them so there's a context to using tools. And I think as a parenting educator, and that's what we call ourselves to love that that's often what's missing is parents come and say I want the tools I want the strategies, but if they don't have the context for it, the strategies [overlapping]

Shelly Lefkoe: They won't use it. And I ring the emergency bell that I am saying this to you with all the oh god I wish I could make a recording of me you, and your children's grades when none of this stuff you worry about is going to determine how their lives turn out.

The beliefs that they have about themselves and life and people and the world are what's going to determine how their lives turn out. And this is not my theory, my good idea.

I work every day with people who have beliefs and when I say to them at the end, because they do this magical thing at the end of my sessions, and I say, did you create your beliefs? And they say, yes. Did your beliefs create your life? Is your life consistent with your beliefs?

I had a client who was worth $10 million. He didn't know his wife. He didn't know his kids. His wife was ready to divorce him. And he said to me, Shelly, when is it going to be enough? I said, never.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because you have the belief that it's not enough.

Shelly Lefkoe: What makes me good enough are my achievements, so here's the beach ball. I'm not important. I'm not good enough. But what makes me good enough on my achievements, as long as I get A's, I'm good enough and that beach ball has to stay underwater so it's driven. And whatever you acknowledge, you know your kids for that's what they're going to think makes them good enough.

So you have to let them know who you are as whole and complete, and good enough. I say everybody has their mishegoss, their stuff. We all have it. And if you tell your kids, this is your stuff, this one has that stuff. There's not a person in the world who doesn't have stuff. That's why I'm busy all day.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. That's what I say to my kids all the time. It's like everybody's got their mind. I use the word stuff, but everyone's got their stuff and your stuff and we're all going to have to learn to deal with our own stuff. That's really what the parenting journey is about dealing with our own stuff, so we can help our kids learn to deal with theirs.

Shelly Lefkoe: And there's nothing wrong with you. Again, here's another Shelly gem, acknowledge them for who they are not for what they do. When my husband died a hundred people came to my house and said he was the most loving person I ever met.

And I'm going to tell you what my daughter said he was the most nonjudgmental person. He had two friends that he had known for 40 years and they said in 40 years, I never heard him say a bad word about anybody. That's who he was.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I know for sure that that would not be said about me. 

Shelly Lefkoe: I said the same thing. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I wish I could say I was that clean but I'm not.

Shelly Lefkoe: I have a daughter who lives in Hawaii. I have two daughters. This is the other daughter. And she stood up and she said and it's funny because she's not an effusive kind of mushy gushy girl. She's a big wave surfer. And she said, I not only knew I was loved unconditionally, every day of my life, but I never felt judged.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's amazing.

Shelly Lefkoe: And I said she's not going to say that to me. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But that's what we want. 

Shelly Lefkoe: I'm teasing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's what we want for our kids and for ourselves, is we're going to judge and then it's how do we interpret that. It's kind of like what you were saying before. It's not good or bad. Do we bring discernment to it?

Shelly Lefkoe: I love that Elaine because here's what I say: get rid of four words: good, bad, right, wrong. Never say them again. Good, bad, right, wrong. Just get rid of them and describe and always use I messages. I need, I feel, I want, I wish you would go to sleep now.

I would appreciate it if you would. I know you feel that way and it's not okay to hit your sister or bang your head with books or whatever it is. I was sitting with my grandson one day and all of a sudden he got up and picked the chair up and threw it across the room into the wall and I was like, wow, I said Logs, you must be really angry right now. I was like holy toast and it's not okay to destroy furniture. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or walls.

Shelly Lefkoe: Or walls, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. So I hate to wrap this up, but it's time to wrap this up. So please, I know you showed your CD now streaming but tell it to your parents, I think you said you have a gift. So how do parents get in touch with you?

Shelly Lefkoe: The gift is completely different. So if you go to empoweringthenextgeneration.com this is a manual for parenting. It is the best thing you could give yourself to empower the next generation.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Empoweringthenextgeneration.com, we will put it in the show notes. 

Shelly Lefkoe: The free gift is a different URL, go to recreateyourlife.com, R-E recreateyourlife.com and you can eliminate a belief for free. And why I want you to do this is not because you're going to eliminate a belief in your life that is going to change, you'd have to get more than one. But it will be so real for you in your own life, how your belief got formed, and how to get rid of it.

As you do the process, I want you to think about the steps and you'll see how you can not only keep your children from forming negative beliefs, but you can use this process to help get rid of the ones that they have formed.

And mostly it's by getting them to get you never saw I'm stupid. You saw your grades. You never saw nobody will ever like me. You saw a few kids be mean to you. Very powerful.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You know what I'm taking away from today and I hope everybody will take a moment to sort of reflect and ask yourself, what are the insights that I've gotten from today because it's been a really rich, full conversation. The reminder to me and we do so much work around this, and I know you do two is that language really matters how we speak about things, everything in terms of how we interpret them and how we act. And so as parents, it's really, it really helps to be very conscious of how I say it and how do I tweak that?

We often say it's the little nuances that have been the most transformation. It's the little changes. It's not huge, big changes, because a lot of you if you're listening to this, as you say you're probably already a conscious parent, you probably do a pretty pretty damn good job. What's the opportunity here is to make those little tweaks that have this profound impact on your family so I love that.

Shelly Lefkoe: I gave a lot in this short time. There's so much more I want to say but I don't feel that way because usually I talk for at least an hour.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: In coaching, we call that you feel complete.

Shelly Lefkoe: I feel complete. I was just going to say that I feel complete. That's great.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So we do want to wrap up. Are there any other pearls or anything that you want to make sure your list the listeners take away or something you hope they take away from today before we check into your little favorite quote?

Shelly Lefkoe: When your child walks away from you, stop and ask yourself, what did they just conclude? And if that's not a belief you want them to have for the rest of their life go back and clean it up.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Clean it up. I love it. Go back and clean it up. And so that last pearl what's your favorite quote or motto? 

Shelly Lefkoe: I told my kids I don't know that I'm so happy I did because it worked but I tell them, life is like a yardstick. And most people live somewhere in the first two feet 11 and three-quarter inches. What life's about is that last quarter of an inch.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Life's about the last quarter of an inch and I do think you said you have a daughter who's a big surfer so I suspect that she's kind of living on that last quarter edge a lot of the time.

Shelly Lefkoe: And the other one if I showed you pictures, she does this thing called canyoneering on these mountains. I have a picture of her where she's in a black wetsuit and she's on a mountain in this water. That's why I said I didn't expect it to quite turn out that way.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Be careful what you wish for. I'm with you on that one.

Shelly Lefkoe: Be careful what you wish for. She's dancing in that last quarter of an inch. It's going the distance. It's being willing to fail. Tell your children failure is good. It teaches you. There are 400,000 on the internet, read them quotes about failures. When they make a mistake, yell at learning opportunities. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Tons of them on the website on Impact Parents because we call it failing forward and [overlapping] to make mistakes and a lot of workaround. All right, Shelly, thank you so much for being here.

Shelly Lefkoe: You're so smart to listen to, Elaine. Oh my god.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: This has just been a pleasure. Thank you all for being here. Our guest was Shelly Lefkoe and the Pearls of Wisdom. The show notes could be a mile long. I'm not sure how we're going to manage that but make sure you go check out the free gift that she's offering you at recreateyourlife.com.

It's going to be fabulous and I really encourage you to take advantage of it. Shelley, thank you. And to all of you who are listening, thank you for all that you're doing for yourself and for your kids at the end of the day. That's what makes the difference. Take care, everyone. See you soon.