Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back to another episode of the Parenting with Impact podcast. Today, we are thrilled to be talking with Heather Rogers, who is in charge of one of the resources many of you probably already know about. It's called Time Timer.

And we are going to be talking about time, and particularly how time messes with those of us with complex kids. So, Heather, we are so glad to have you. I guess I want to introduce you by saying we met Heather in some ways through Time Timer, but in other ways because Heather is also the mom of some complex kids.

And so, we have a relationship with you because Time Timer is one of those resources that any parent of a kid with ADD or executive function probably knows about or needs to know about. But also, I remember meeting, I think it was your mom or your mother-in-law at a conference a couple of years ago.

Heather Rogers: My mother-in-law, yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That was our first mother-in-law meeting of a Time Timer. That was many years ago. And then, more recently, you've joined us as a member of our community, like getting support for yourself as a parent of complex kids. 

Diane Dempster: So, Heather, I think you can jump in by talking a little bit about what you do to support families of complex kids and how you ended up in this work.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: How you got there?

Heather Rogers: Oh, how I ended up. So well, the story of Time Timer, where I work, is really interesting. My mother-in-law, Jan Rogers, invented the Time Timer over 25 years ago because her youngest child was so frustrated by time.

Not only was she late for soccer practice, missed the bus, all of those sorts of things, she was really frustrated that she couldn't manage better than she did. Figuring time out was really hard for her, so Jan tried everything. The kitchen timer, the microwave timer, watch two more cartoons and then put your shoes on time all those strategies failed.

And Jan had the brilliant realization that if she could just show what time looks like as it's going away, it might help her daughter better understand. And so that was the beginning of the company over 25 years ago.

Fast forward 12 years ago, my husband and I moved to Cincinnati to help her continue to grow the company because, at that point, the need for a product like that was clear, and the company kept growing. And so here I am today, standing on Jan's shoulders, helping to continue the work that she started.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's so awesome. It's a very interesting kind of family business to be part of.

Heather Rogers: Oh, yeah. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And so there must be lots of conversations about time in your home and at your dinner table. So let's talk a little bit about what you have learned about managing awareness of engagement with time, particularly when you're dealing with families where time is a challenging issue.

Heather Rogers: Probably the number one thing is that I learned that time is an abstract concept.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. I often say in my world that there's two time zones. Not zones. There's two times. There's now, and there's not now with my kids. That's it.

Heather Rogers: Exactly. So, it's a really hard concept to grasp. Even if you have an analog clock that you're looking at, like the passage of time is not intuitive, when you're looking at that, or even a digital timer.

Some people, it's just harder than others to grasp that. If you're a complex person, it might be harder, but everyone has to deal with time. There's so no escaping it, and you can never get it back when it's gone. It's this challenge, this daily, minute-to-minute challenge that everyone has to deal with.

Diane Dempster: Well, there's so many different facets to it. It's time awareness, being aware of the passage of time. It's time estimation, being able to guesstimate how long it's going to take to do something. It's sequencing to make sure that you have enough time to get things done.

I mean, there's all of these components to it, which require a lot of executive function, which make things really difficult for these kids. So, what are some of the key challenges that you're seeing as you talk with parents who are struggling with time generally?

Heather Rogers: All the routines like the morning routine, getting out of the door in the morning with everything you need to make it through the day, eating dinner. Some kids really eat slowly, and it's this never-ending process getting homework done, getting reading done.

Younger kids in elementary school have to read for 15 minutes, 20 minutes, half-hour every night. How do you keep track of that? And homework, did I say homework? Homework, music lessons. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Bear saying it again, really.

Diane Dempster: That long showers, I hear that a lot. My kids get in the shower and he takes a week instead of, you've only got 15 minutes scheduled for the shower, and he's in there forever or she's in there forever.

Heather Rogers: And all the hot water. I got my showers in the morning, so I don't have a cold one.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's right. There's so many different issues. And the other thing that comes up to me about it is that it brings up a lot of emotion because time is this abstract concept. I was going someplace with my husband this morning, and we were about five minutes late, which means we were right on time because everybody else was five minutes late, too.

We actually were going to a meeting out of the house. And his response was I hate being late, like I know you do, honey. It really is frustrating for him, and for me, it doesn't bother me, so there's emotion built in here.

Heather Rogers: That's a great example. Because one of the things I've learned talking to the parents and educators who use Time Timers is that people experience the passage of time very differently. It might be very enjoyable for one person, but it might be incredibly boring or stressful for the other.

The perception of the passage of that same amount of time is very different, even though time is passing at a constant rate. So, there's this whole emotional component to it, like you said, Elaine.

Diane Dempster: And the other piece it's coming up for me is that a lot of us have high values around promptness that either are from our parents, which mine used to be, and those sorts of things, or there are things that we've developed.

I mean, how many people do that say, well, if you're early, you're on time. If you're on time, you're late. And if you're late, you're out of luck whatever.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Successful people are always never rushing and always on time. 

Heather Rogers: Yeah, absolutely. 

Diane Dempster: What do you want parents of complex kids to understand better? What do we need as parents to understand better about our kids? What are we missing about time with our kids? 

Heather Rogers: I think it's just this realization that your perception of the passage of time is not necessarily theirs.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Say that again.

Heather Rogers: You, as a parent, your perception of the passage of time is not necessarily your child's perception. They can be very different.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Well, and so and as I hear you say that, I know a lot of parents who are going to hear it and go, but they're wrong because they don't understand how much time it takes to, but they've got to get to school on time. 

Diane Dempster: Yeah, as I said, they got to develop the skill. It's a sort of, is it really about a skill, or is it really just perception, and is it something that can be changed?

Heather Rogers: Really, it's both. Two people can perceive the exact same thing differently. And people with the right support and practice can better manage their time. Like I was saying earlier, you can't get away from time. You're going to have to deal with it. So, what do you need to be successful with it?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: This is a weird segue, so pull me back if I take us too far off. But I was just remembering when I first started coaching, one of the things I was really frustrated about was always being late. Five minutes, in my mind, isn't exactly late but really late. I would get frustrated, and I wanted to stop it, and then I started noticing myself making excuses.

And so, I made a commitment to myself for a period of time that when I was late, I was going to walk in, and I was going to take responsibility for it. And I wasn't going to say there was a car parked in the driveway, or I was behind a slow truck, or I missed all the lights.

I'm just going to say I'm sorry. I didn't allow enough time to get here on time, and it actually got me to change my relationship with time because I didn't want to be embarrassed but I called myself on the carpet. You know what I mean?

Heather Rogers: Yeah. I think having an intention with your time makes you accountable to yourself. Well, the other thing I've learned in the program is you are accountable to yourself, but when you don't get it right, forgive yourself and move on and try again for your child.

Diane Dempster: Yeah. I think that that's the piece of it. The other thing I'm thinking about is to own it but also know what your strengths are and what your challenges are. It's like this sort of if your child knows, hey, I'm really not very great at estimating time.

I mean, I've two adult men in my life with ADHD, and one of them is really bad at estimating how long something's going to take. And so, we came up with a system that he could use to figure out how to estimate better. And the other one who is always late for certain types of things. And it's this sort of he understands that that's what's going on.

Always early for work stuff, but always not so early on other stuff. But if he knows, if you know that that's what your challenges are, again, without judgment, like you were saying, Heather, keep trying different things to accommodate it. It's not about fixing it. It's about accommodating it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and that's really what systems and strategies are all about is recognizing here's the problem I'm trying to address.

Here's the thing that's interfering. What do I do to help myself be more successful with it? Whether it's Time Timer or something else. It's the notion that what I need here is some structure to support this.

Heather Rogers: Exactly. And that's where I keep going with my daughter, who has ADHD, and the distraction is her challenge with that.

I needed to work on making sure that I remember to sit down with her every afternoon after school, usually evening, and look through her homework assignments, help her plan the day, the week, look ahead, all of those sorts of things to make sure that she practices that.

And our practices got there, like it eventually happened, where she was more proactive and managed it better on our own, but I had to create a structure first to support her in that role. 

Diane Dempster: And so that's my next question is that what are the things that parents can do to have an impact on their kids and helping them to be aware of their time challenges, and to adjust or accommodate or help, or whatever it is, we most need to do? 

Heather Rogers: Well, I think that's where Time Timer can be a support because time, the way that Time Timer works, it's visual. You don't need to think about it. You don't need to know how to tell time. You don't have to do mental math about how much time is remaining.

You can just look at it, and it's intuitive. So if you set it for a half hour for your time remaining to get out the door, then that helps you see when you have a half hour and when time goes away. And when there's less time available. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, let's step back for a minute. Let's talk a little bit about buy-in because one of the things when you reference the program before the program, you're talking about a Sanity School. And I know you've been an active member in Sanity School, and one of the things we talk about in that program is how to use systems and structures effectively.

So, you don't start with putting a system in place. You start by building the relationship, having connection with your kid, as you're describing that it took a while to get to that point where she was taking ownership of it. So, talk a little bit about how you talk to parents or how you have done it yourself around getting the buy-in to engage in them in a process in the first place.

Heather Rogers: Well, it starts with a conversation. The phrase from the program that really resonates with me is curious, not furious. A common conversation in my home is well, why didn't you unload the dishwasher? And she inevitably ran out of time.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. But it's good there's an answer to the question, right?

Heather Rogers: Yeah. And understanding where the challenges are and not being angry about it. This stuff is hard just because it seems obvious to me doesn't mean it's obvious or easy for my child to deal with what I'm asking about, and it all builds.

Because when I don't get angry about a chore being done or not and that helps our relationship as well. So, it's two wins there. 

Diane Dempster: The thing that came up for me, as you were talking about the Time Timer is an example, Heather, is it's not about the system or structure until you really understand what's going on.

And so that curiosity is what makes it hard for my kid? Is it about time awareness? And so we need a solution, like a Time Timer. Is it about distractibility? And so, I don't care how many Time Timers you've got in somebody's room or alarms or whatever else, if you don't have a way to get their attention, you're going to have a hard time using a Time Timer because they aren't even going to see it.

You've got to really understand, from an executive function perspective, what's going on underneath it, and then decide, get the buy-in, and then figure out what's the system or structure we want to use.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What's coming up as I hear you say that, Diane, is really what you're saying is first you gotta take aim. You have to get very clear on what's the challenge you're trying to solve before you put a solution in place.

Diane Dempster: The challenge is not I want to get my kids to use a Time Timer. The challenge is my kid gets lost when they're doing X, Y, and Z.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And I want them downstairs by 7:30 for breakfast or whatever. Or this needs to get done, or that needs to get done.

Heather Rogers: And I have two daughters, and they both need different strategies. I re-learn that constantly. What works for one doesn't work for the other necessarily.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and it's really great when you can collaboratively find something with them that works for them. I was thinking about a strategy when my kids were little. Not little, but younger.

They got tired of us telling them it's time to get downstairs for breakfast before school. So everybody was getting frustrated by being reminded about time in the mornings. And so, we sat down and had a family meeting and talked about it, and what we agreed to as a family that would meet everybody's needs, was that David would come out at a certain time in the morning.

I can't remember exactly what time anymore and he would give us a weather report. So, while everybody was getting dressed, they would get a weather report so that they know whether they'll wear short sleeves or long sleeves or whatever. But they also knew that meant it was a certain time. And that meant they only had time 10 minutes or whatever it was left to make it downstairs for breakfast.

So, it wasn't a saying to them, you're running out of time. And it wasn't us saying to them, you only have 10 minutes but it was a structure that gave them what they needed without making them feel bad about it. 

Diane Dempster: And the thing that's coming up, as you're saying that is that a lot of these kids not only have challenges with time awareness, some of them have challenges with anxiety. And it's this sort of use the system or structure that they have in place, whether it's a timer or a Time Timer or a weather report like you were just saying, part of what you need to pay attention to is will the system make it harder for the kids because they're going to get nervous about oh, my gosh, I've only got five minutes versus reassure them that they have time and maneuver them through the morning if they're struggling with anxiety.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It just depends on your kid. So, I had one kid who would have, who we used to use the William Tell Overture like they do when they clear the bases at the baseball game. There's only seven minutes to clear the bases, and everybody loved it.

Well, one kid used that to get dressed in the morning, and the other kid would have freaked her out. So, it just depends. What I hear you saying, Heather, is really knowing what your child's temperament is about time and understanding how they relate to time.  

Heather Rogers: Yes, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners or something you hope parents will take away from today?

Heather Rogers: Really, just when I think about it, time is such a hard thing for everybody, but at the end of the day, what's really most important is your relationship with your child. And so I just encourage everyone to keep that in perspective and top of mind.

You're going to be late. It's going to happen. Things are going to get lost; it's going to happen. But your child is the most important person to cherish and with the time that you have with them.

Diane Dempster: I think the other piece of it is we've always talked about this in a lot of our podcast is putting that relationship first is what you're saying, and then the other piece of it that we teach is something we call rinsing and repeating.

It's this sort of not expecting one solution to work all the time or not expecting one solution to work perfectly the first time and really noticing what is working what isn't working. Did I cause more anxiety? Did I cause less anxiety? What worked about this? I mean all of that sort of dynamic, looking at the situation.

And the reality is that whatever your solution is, whatever you're working through, it may work for a while, and then when they get a little older it may stop working. So be aware of the fact that the solutions and the challenges you're seeing may change over time, and that relationship you're talking about, Heather, is that steady foundation that's going to enable you to problem-solve with your kids and come up with new solutions.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. So, Heather, tell people how they can get in touch with you. And I know we're going to have all the information in the show notes, but just tell them a little bit about Time Timer, and I'm going to model my, one of my time timers that one of the ones that sits on my desk as an example, but what's available for people at Time Timer.

Heather Rogers: So, Time Timer, you can find us at timetimer.com. That's how it sounds TIMETIMER.com. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And again, there'll be a link in the notes below, so go ahead and link from there.

Heather Rogers: And you know you can also find us at any school supply stores. We're available online in every online marketplaces everywhere that you would care to look. What else do you want me to [inaudible]

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: There's a variety of different kinds of Time Timers, different shapes, different sizes for different needs, so go check it out. Click the link below and see what's there and see whether it's a good fit for your family. And the thing I would advise, based on this conversation, is to do it collaboratively with your kid.

Don't come in and say okay, now you're going to use this, but explore it with your kid. Let them see it and ask them if they think it might be helpful for them before you dive into the solution.

Diane Dempster: Let them pick a color. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Absolutely.

Diane Dempster: So, as a fun wrap-up, Heather, we'd love for you to share a favorite quote, or a motto, or something that you take to heart that you would share with our audience.

Heather Rogers: I'm very fond of saying indecision is a decision. 

Diane Dempster: Love that.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Indecision is a decision. You're always a choice. Love that

Heather Rogers: That's right. You always have a choice

 Diane Dempster: Awesome. Thank you so much, Heather, for being here with us, and thank you all for joining us on the podcast today. And we will see you next time. 

Heather Rogers: Thank you so much.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Take care, everyone.