Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody. We are so excited for today's conversation. We are going to introduce you to Jeremy Didier who we've known - we were just calculating at least eight years. We're not really sure. We've known her for wearing many hats as an advocate and a parent and a coach. And now soon to be a master's in social worker, where she's been doing this really cool internship, providing ADHD classes for adults living in detention. So I'm hoping we'll get to talk about that a little bit. And then when she graduates, she's going to be able to officially evaluate and diagnose adults with ADHD, which we're also really psyched about. But that's not really why we're here today. We're here today, because when we first met Jeremy, she's the founder of a new local CHADD group in Kansas City called ADHD KC. And she just found us. We met you, I think, first at a national conference on ADHD in those days. It was called the CHADD conference. And from the moment we met her, we found out that she was starting coach training. We knew we wanted her on our team. So Jeremy has been with us as a member of the Impact team for many years, and she's also been a parent in the Impact community. And she and her husband have been involved with us not just as colleagues. Jeremy as colleague but also as clients as people who have learned from the coach approach who have been in coaching programs with group and private coaching. And so Jeremy is here today wearing her hat as a mom of complex kids and kids in particular with ADHD and autism and a whole bunch of other fun, creative stuff. Lots of things. And so that's the framework for today. So how do you want to start off? You're want to tell us a little bit about your journey and how you came to discover this work with Impact and its impact on you.

Jeremy Didier: Oh, my gosh, wow. First of all, thank you so much for asking me to be here. I'm so excited to get to talk about you guys because you're my favorite topic. Gosh, I can't believe that it's been eight, nine years since we first met. I mean, it's amazing to think back. And actually, this is cool. So our son, Theo, it's okay if I use names?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Sure. If you're comfortable.

Jeremy Didier: Yeah, so our son, Theo, he's our third child. He's now almost 18. When he was three years old, wow, it was a good thing he wasn't our first, we used to say, because he would have been our only. As easy as you guys know, we went on to have two more so have five kids now.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So that's a total of five everyone.

Diane Dempster: I know. But that's a good sign. That means you did something right in there that you were willing to go back and do it again.

Jeremy Didier: Or it could mean that one of the parents has adult ADHD has some challenges with impulse control, and you end up having a few more kids than you planned on, which is actually the answer in our case.

Diane Dempster: Okay.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: As my mother would call it dessert.

Jeremy Didier: Dessert. Theo, we had no idea what to do with him. He was a kid that ran out into the street. He ran out in the parking lots. He jumped out of trees when there was nothing below. He just wow. He'd be up on the table. He literally climbed the walls. We had no clue what we were doing. And we knew that the things that we had tried with him, were not working at all. So when we went to the doctor and found out that he had ADHD, we were ready. We're like, okay, great. He has ADHD, what do we do next? And it was like, 15,000 directions that you can go, and wow, okay, I don't know what to do with that. And so we found CHADD, which we talked about before. And I just needed people to talk to. I was desperate to find other people who had a similar experience whose house looked a little bit like our house because a lot of my friends had kids that weren't literally climbing the walls or jumping out of trees and breaking their arms or punching walls every now and then and we didn't talk about those things very much back then. It's amazing to think about how much has changed just in the past 15 years truly. And so yeah, so I started that ADHD in KC, the CHADD group in Kansas City purely selfishly so I could have a group of other parents who hopefully were having some similar experience to what we were having, and they were. And as time went on, and we got Theo's ADHD managed, I was diagnosed with ADHD. But Theo still had other stuff going on, and he was later diagnosed with autism and dysgraphia. And so at that point, I had stopped working time. I was in pharmaceutical sales and marketing for a long time. And I thought, you know what, everyone's doing ADHD coaching. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: What is this thing?

Jeremy Didier: Yeah. It was not necessarily an alternative to therapy for kids with ADHD, but a good support, particularly for kids who had challenges with executive function. And at the time, I thought that I would just get the knowledge just to help Theo so I had more information to help Theo. And then I went to the CHADD conference, and I met you guys, and the rest is history.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So you met Impact, so you had heard about ADHD coaching. By this point, I believe you had already started your own training, right?

Jeremy Didier: Yes. I was already in school.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So what was it that got your attention? What made it different? 

Jeremy Didier: About coaching?  

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: About Impact. You found us. Everybody needs to know it a mutual love affair from-

Diane Dempster: From day one.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: -from day one.

Jeremy Didier: Yes, absolutely. Very much. Gosh, I think, really, the thing that stood out for me was that so many people had told me what was wrong with my kid. And you guys were one of the first people who asked what my kid did well and what I loved about my kid and what his strengths were, and that meant the world to me. I didn't even realize that I was looking at him, through a negative lens and seeing only the challenges. Only the things that we were going to struggle with until I met you guys. And part of, getting to learn from you and take some classes and be a client of yours, I'm not making a lot of sense, but you understand what I'm saying is, the whole idea that I can change myself and I can figure out a way to be a better parent because I knew that what we were doing wasn't working. And I didn't want to be a yeller because my mom was a yeller. And I hated it every time I yelled. And I didn't want to be angry all the time. When we first set the tone of the home workshop, I think, and found this to be true. Anytime I do that workshop people just burst into tears. And we talk about what do you want your kids to say when they come home with their spouse and their partner and their kids, your grandkids 15, 10 years from now, however long it'll be. Do you want them to say that, that they remember growing up in a place that was fun, and there was love and happiness and joy? And I just remember bursting into tears because I didn't think at that point in our lives, that our kids could say that. And so yeah. You guys gave us joy. You guys gave us a chance to be better people and better parents. And yeah, I think that's the primary thing that stood out to me that and then talking about the developmental delay. Anytime that I get frustrated with my kids even now, and I have four to five now have been diagnosed with ADHD, which is another story altogether. But anytime I get frustrated with them and it's really easy to forget, particularly when they look like adults. My 20-year-old, still functionally in a lot of areas is more like 16 or 15. And so she's in college, but there's definitely times where I'm like ugh and then I have to take a step back and remember oh, okay. This is exactly where you're supposed to be for where you are developmentally because of your ADHD. And I would not have known that. I would not have been able to change that story in my head if I hadn't learned that from you guys.

Diane Dempster: Let me just clarify a little bit to who haven't heard this before. But kids with ADHD, particularly in some of the other executive function challenges, the language is 30% behind, which in younger kids is three to five years in some areas of executive function development in terms of self-management, and things like that. And so if you're looking at an 18-year-old, and you subtract three or four years, they may have some executive function skills that are more like a 14-year-old or even a 13 year old.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So but here's what jumps out at me by what you said. And thanks for that clarification, Diane. I think it helps set the context because you're saying I wouldn't have known that. And it's in the literature. There's all kinds of things that we learn about ADHD or anxiety or all of these different issues. Our kids have autism. We can read what's in the books, or what's in the DSM or whatever but how it actually shows up in life is the piece that is often missed.

Diane Dempster: It's not just that, but those little snippets. The language we use is the three to five challenge. Take the three to five challenge. It's stuff like that, you don't read in the books. It's just that sort of, oh my gosh, three to five years. That's just something to latch into.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That's a lot.

Diane Dempster: That's a lot.

Jeremy Didier: And that has been the thing that has made the most difference for, I think, both Brian and I overall. Usually, when one of us is getting upset, the other one will say, remember, he's functionally, whatever age, and we're like, oh, okay. And we're able to set more realistic expectations and let go of whatever it was we thought he should be doing by this point in time. Anytime we say should then that's always a red flag because we're all trying hard not to shoot all over ourselves as we say so.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And the other thing that jumps out, as I'm hearing you, is that you didn't do this for a month, or three months, or even six months. You've been doing this for years. You and Brian had been in this community, doing the work getting the support, and I guess you had multiple kids to support over the years.

Jeremy Didier: It's the challenges, yes, we were born for these or our kids were born to be in this work.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But things are always changing and growing. We're always trying to adapt to where our kids are. So I'm trying to get my head around the fact that you were a young, angry yelling, mom. I can't see you in that context at all because you're such a joyful person. But, so there are layers and layers and layers of work that you've done over the years. There was that start and then it's not you came in and you left. So why did you stay? 

Jeremy Didier: Oh my gosh. Why did I stay? We have all these kids and just because they're like growing up doesn't mean they're done. Even our 22-year-old who is likely neurotypical through and through, still has challenges. I mean, like most parents, you never stop being a parent. So your kids are constantly growing and changing and facing new opportunities and new things that challenge them and our kids with complex needs. Theo is doing great. He's doing absolutely great. We had to have his test done again for him to go to college, not this coming year but the next year. He has to recertify that he has ADHD and autism still.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because somehow they're going to grow out of it, right?

Jeremy Didier: Yeah. But it was really a powerful thing to fill out all the rating scales and think about what I put on all those rating scales 15, 10 years ago, when we had to do this, and how much he has grown. If you didn't know the history, and if you were just looking at the rating scales on some of them, you couldn't actually tell that he had challenges in some areas. But he still does. He still qualifies for everything. 

Diane Dempster: It's different.

Jeremy Didier: Yeah, it keeps going. And if he goes to college, and he's able to live in a dorm, he's going to run into some challenges there too. And so, particularly, we have an older kids group or parents of older kids group and a young adults group now, and I need that insight because I am my own worst enemy. Go ahead.

Diane Dempster: I was going to say that to me one of the most fascinating things about the work that we do is just how universal it is. I've got a mom in my group who has a kid who's four, and she's struggling with. And I have a mom in another group was a kid who's 33 and she's struggling with them. And it's just the work is on some level the same regardless of whether they're 33. The problem is different. And it looks very, very different. It feels very different. We approach it on some level differently. But underneath it, it's the same. This is a person or a child with an executive function challenge.

Jeremy Didier: Yes, exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay. So I'm going to have a little coaching moment here, if I may because I heard you say I'm my own worst enemy. And so the coaching reframe of that, there are a lot of ways that you could reframe that. But there's something in that because you are also your greatest advocate and your greatest support, and you have been able to do this work because you stepped in and you leaned in. So if you were to rephrase that, how would you label yourself?

Jeremy Didier: I'm my own best learning experience.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love it.

Diane Dempster: I'm guessing, Jeremy, that all of this adventure, you mentioned it very quickly in passing. Oh, and I'm an adult who was diagnosed with ADHD. I mean, there's a layer to that complexity. There's so many places I want to talk about with you, but one of them might be what's it like for you as a mom with impulse issues, whatever your challenges are as an adult, navigating this and what are the tools that you lean into the most that are helpful for you?

Jeremy Didier: Yeah. I'm still figuring that out. I have been really, really fortunate that we've been able outsource a lot of things. And I've been able to put all kinds of systems and structures in place to help me organize my life. I think even if I didn't have ADHD, having five kids would be a stretch in terms of executive function. But I mean, just doing this work as well and knowing that a lot of the things that that I do that I have done, there's a reason behind that. It's never an excuse. It's an excellent explanation, but just knowing that, that this is a symptom of my ADHD, and this is how my ADHD manifests in my life. It makes it so much easier for me to forgive myself and to shift that perspective to something more positive, like, okay, and I don't internalize it as much as I used to. We've talked about this before with girls and women, and that whole concept of rejection-sensitive dysphoria, where sometimes you mess up, and we say, I'm a bad person if we messed up. Instead of I messed up, okay, next time, I'll try something differently. It takes a long time to get even to that shift. So yeah, just doing this work that's why I'm so passionate about girls and women getting diagnosed, even if they think they already have it, or they have absolutely no clue because that whole piece of shame and internalizing, and the depression and anxiety and all the stuff that comes along with not getting diagnosed is just so harmful. So yeah, that's been my journey as an adult, one with ADHD. I was going to say, we were going to touch on my internship a little bit because I'm getting my master's in social work. And my internship has been at the Johnson County Correctional Facility, and I've had two different female supervisors and I've diagnosed both of them with ADHD. And so yeah, it makes me feel really good to know that I could make a difference, even though it's tiny.

Diane Dempster: And the thing that I'm hearing I think this is a lot of times people will think they have executive function challenges, or they are they go through the process, when their kids go through the process, they get diagnosed. And then there's this aha, oh, my life makes perfect sense. And then there's this thing of shame that shows up, and it's just sort of, I don't know how to be with the fact that my brain works different especially when I've got to hold the bar for my kids. I get to help my kids. I got to be going to be a good role model for my kids. And then all of that stuff kind of wraps in there. I think that that's the question is like, the moms out there, the dads out there with ADHD that are hungry for what do I stand on that helps me to feel okay while I'm struggling with his parenting? What do you say to them?

I should ask Elaine the same question. You're dealing with the same thing, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. You get to go first, Jeremy. I know you're going to say that. I think it's several things. I think having a supportive partner is helpful and a supportive co-parent that understands ADHD and understands that the things that I do are not intentional. And I'm not deliberately trying to make his life difficult.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And he's willing to do his own work. That was huge.

Jeremy Didier: Yes, definitely. That and we can go a whole different direction with partners who have ADHD and those who don't, and the executive function for a whole family. But where was I going with this? Oh, I mean, just a strong community of amazing women also. I mean, some who have ADHD, and some who don't, but all of them are versed in resilience, and mental health, and self-care. And just letting go and you guys talked about doing enough. This is enough. I think perfectionism is something that a lot of moms with ADHD struggle with, and once you can figure out that it doesn't exist, and no one's actually keeping score, it makes it a lot easier to just relax, and do what you need to do to take care of yourself and your family. I think COVID actually, in a lot of ways, made it easier to take a step back and let your hair down a little bit and hide the messes or not hide the messes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Focus on your priorities.

Jeremy Didier: Exactly.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So here's what's coming up is I'm hearing it because I was a late diagnosis adult with ADD. All three of my kids like dominoes have been diagnosed at some points, like, okay, it can't just be my husband's neurology. But what's interesting in my experience was that I had been never diagnosed but treated for anxiety for years. And it always helped a little bit, but not a lot and I done talk therapy and medicine, all this. Nothing had really helped. And it wasn't until I was diagnosed with ADHD and treated for ADHD that my anxiety symptoms went away or went down because there's a lot of anxiety that happens when the world is trying to tell you to do what you think you should do and you can't get yourself to do it. It's going to make you anxious, a lot of the perfectionism. And so I'm thinking about the whole issue of diagnosis, and what you're saying is how important it is, and and how hard it can be, particularly for girls. I got a psych evaluation from a friend recently asked me to look at it. And I believe in reading this entire 15-page report that they didn't even consider ADHD as a potential. So they've diagnosed this kid with executive function challenges, and no anxiety, and no dyslexia. You read it, and it looks like it's ADHD. It's pretty clear to me, but they missed it completely because there's this bias against identifying and treating girls with ADHD is very different from boys.

Jeremy Didier: Yes. You got you've heard my story but I'll tell it again. My own daughter, who was diagnosed when she was 14. And at that time, I had been the founder and director of the local support group for parents of ADHD kids. I was a certified ADHD coach teaching parenting classes on complex kids or kids who have ADHD. I took her to our pediatrician who was the co-founder of the ADHD parent support group here in Kansas City and who knows that her two brothers have ADHD and that her mother has ADHD. Never once screened her for ADHD when she started feeling depressed and anxious. [inadibile] to my psychiatrist, who also knows I have ADHD, and she never screened her either. And so it wasn't until several months of depression, anxiety therapy, different medications, a lot of pain, basically, for her.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And for the family. Let's be honest because none of this ever happens in a vacuum.

Jeremy Didier: Yes. And a lot of second-guessing a lot of this just normal, like teenage girl behavior. She's our only girl and lots of other things that happened in our lives. [inaudible] But yeah, sure enough, I mean, she has ADHD, and I should have known. [inaudible] I should have known, and I totally missed it but so did every other medical professional in our circle because we are good at hiding. Girls are good at pretending that everything's okay. We're good at mimicking. I remember as a child watching other girls to see how they spoke to each other and the things that they would say, and I would write down things to say or funny things to say because just I had no idea how to do that. I was young for my grade. I have a late August birthday. And in Kansas, the cutoff is September 1 so I was always the youngest in my grade and I was always the tallest in my grade.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I was never the tallest but I'm with you on the youngest.

Jeremy Didier: Got you there.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Fourth grade for about a day.

Jeremy Didier: All we're smart too. No one ever looked at us and said, oh, she's falling behind or she's not doing well in this area, this area because academically we're both doing great. But I just remember that discomfort and that knowing that I didn't know how to do what they were doing but I wanted to. I really wanted to be able to figure it out. Girls put on good act.

Diane Dempster: Let's talk about that for a minute because I want to segue into that if we can because the story about your daughter is really profound. What is it that parents can look for in girls that feels different than the stereotypical boy ADHD?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So many things.

Jeremy Didier: There's so many things. Just from the get-go, if anyone in the family also has ADHD, just screen the girls. Screen everybody really at that point. I mean, it shouldn't even be a question. It should be part of your annual physical or something I think.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Let me just interrupt real quick, Jeremy. It used to be a 50% likelihood. Now I just read from something Dr. [inaudible] sent that it's now a 70 to 80% likeliness of that.

Diane Dempster: So that if your sibling.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: A sibling or a parent.

Jeremy Didier: Parent, yeah. Highly heritable, as we say. So the odds are always really, really good someone else in the family has it. Because it can go both ways. I hate to say some of the more obvious stuff because I mean, the girl with inattentive type ADHD does get missed as well but the girl with hyperactive type or combined type usually is hyper-social, like very talkative. It gets in trouble for talking too much in class and writing notes too much in class or just bouncing her leg or clicking her pen too much, that kind of thing. But nobody ever thinks ADHD when the girl is doing that. Gosh, I can't think. What else?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Often girls who are missing social cues, as you said. If you get distracted in a conversation, and you come back, and you don't know what the girls are talking about. One of my daughters would come home and she'd say, I have no idea what they're talking about mom. No clue. And I remember the same feeling at that age. It's like, I'm just going to stand here and smile because I really don't know what they're saying but I want to be part of it. I just don't know what it is.

Jeremy Didier: Yes, exactly. But how do you translate that? I mean, you'd have to be really watching closely, I would think and that why probably girls get missed.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: The other thing that jumps out for me, Jeremy, I don't know what your experience was is full disclosure for me early sexuality. Early use of substances. I see ADHD as stimulation seeking situation condition. And as a young teen preteen and early teen, I was seeking stimulation. And sexuality was a great way to explore it because it gave me a sense of control. When you see a lot of control behaviors, it a compensation for feeling out of control in some ways. Does that resonate for you?

Jeremy Didier: Oh, absolutely. But ideally, we would catch girls before they even get to that age. [inaudible]

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Ideally.

Jeremy Didier: [inaudible] when I was 14 like our insurance agent [inaudible]

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That should have been a sign.

Jeremy Didier: Back then, just like, wow, she's really fast. We had any clue that it was ADHD. But ten years later, my brother was diagnosed with ADHD, and thankfully, my mom remembered enough of when I was a little and say oh, yeah, you were just like your brother. So that when it came time to diagnose Theo. Sounds like me too.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's hard to believe, but we need to start wrapping up this conversation, which is sad because the three of us could sit and hang out hours. We could and we have actually many times. But let's bring it back because the invitation for your being here, the reason is because we posted something in the forum saying what do parents want to hear. We have a private forum for our members. And a lot of people said we would love to hear success stories. And Jeremy was one of the first people to say, I'm in. You can count on me. So what do you want parents to know that would maybe invite them to get the support they need? I don't know, whatever it is, what do you think they need to know? 

Jeremy Didier: I mean, you guys are so phenomenal. I just think I can't stress enough how you meet everybody where they are. No one ever feels bad for sharing what they're thinking or what's happening in their home, everyone feels understood and accepted, and supported. And you just come right to them. And there's always something in there that makes you feel good about what you're doing as a parent and gives you hope. Each of my kids is different. All of their ADHD hits differently. And yet, every parenting group, I've been to every Sanity School session I've listened to has something in it that has been able to help us parent each kid differently. And so I don't know how you guys do it, honestly. But there's something that you do that applies somehow to all kinds of complex presentations. And I think at the end of the day, it's about the parent, and how you help the parent to feel supported and to know that they're doing the best job that they can and that that's okay, that everything is going to get better. And the whole thing about positivity too is just so important. I've been a person who's been around negativity a lot of my life. And that even it seems like a small shif but it's so important. I think Diane used to talk about how negativity feels like that heavy winter coat that you have to wear in summer. I think about that all the time, and it just magnifies everything. And tiny little shifts, like at the beginning of our conversation, that reframe, and the ways that we think of ourselves and our parenting skills and our kids makes all the difference. There's huge ripple effect down the line so I think I think those are the predominant things. What else? It does get better. It gets different. Your kids are still little. It does get better. My Theo like I said he does have autism, which is a little bit of a complication, but we never thought he'd be able to drive. He drives himself to school. He may be able to go and live on his own. We didn't think you'd be able to do a lot of things that he's able to do. And it's amazing how much you can grow as a person when you're willing to step back and change what you're doing to see how your kid can thrive if that makes sense.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, it's little tweaks, and as you're speaking, what's coming up for me is the three of us have a lot of same age between our three families. You kept having them but we gone through this parenting journey together for the last decade in a lot of ways. And there's something about being in a community with other parents who are going through what you're going through and sharing that experience whether you have ADHD as a parent or you don't. I'm looking at Diane and Jeremy. We've been doing this together and I think Diane and I are still doing it with you, right?

Jeremy Didier: Definitely. You're the first people I call. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because we're still doing it too.

Diane Dempster: We're still doing it too. I mean, we call each other all the time. Okay, we're celebrating this, or we're struggling with that, or whatever it is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus:  We get we're not done that it's a journey and it's almost like, be doing this together, brings the joy into the journey.

Jeremy Didier: Absolutely.

Diane Dempster: And I love what you said, Jeremy. Change what you're doing. Step back and watch your kids thrive. I mean, I love that. Jeremy, I know you're doing some really exciting work in your master's program. Do you want to share a little bit about what you're doing and what you're focused on now? I'd love to hear it. 

Jeremy Didier: Sure. So I'm getting my master's in social work. Primarily, the initial plan was to be able to diagnose adults, mostly women with ADHD, because there's just not enough trained professionals in the Kansas City area, or we have a lot of people who will diagnose but won't treat. And so I want to make sure that I can put together a practice that helps support pretty much every aspect of ADHD treatment for adults. And so part of my internship ended up being out at the Johnson County Jail, where I was surprised to learn that, the members differ depending on who you talk to you, but about 70% of people who are currently living in detention, also have ADHD. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense, particularly if you apply that whole three to five-year developmental delay. And the majority of those people who have ADHD have never been diagnosed, or if they were diagnosed as kids, it was poorly managed, and there's horrific stories out there. So that seems to me to be a real need so that's my next passionate area of focus. And alongside that, a lot of people, as you touched on earlier, with ADHD also end up with addiction that use of substance use disorder, trying to self-medicate. And trying to try to balance out what's going on in my mind. And for whatever reason, this makes me feel calm. It may be illegal and made a lot more of it going forward, and I may do stupid things to get it. But it helps me for whatever reason. Well, really, you have ADHD, and there's something that you can have your doctor can push back that helps that's probably going to be a lot safer for you. And you can pick up some skills to go with that. So that's my new area of passion and strength. And I wanted to circle back one more time if we have time. My youngest as you guys know, I was recently diagnosed with ADHD and autism. And what's funny is that because of everything that we learn from you guys and Elaine, you were the one that said it. He had grown up in such an accommodated environment that we hadn't even realized we were providing accommodations for a young child with ADHD. But again, we totally missed the ADHD. And so we went to school. And it was pretty obvious then. That a success to me, because I beat myself up over Sophie missing her entirely but I've done a lot of work with that one. But with Josh, that's a huge success to me. We unknowingly created this wonderful environment for him to thrive in based on the skills that you guys had taught us. And we had no idea that he was going to be just like everybody else. So I just had to put that out there because it was such a cool thing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus:  Yeah. It's it is an amazing, amazing thing when you, and that's the work here. That's what the coach approach is about. It's about creating an environment that allows these kids to reach their potential and to be successful and to feel great about themselves, and that environment shifts when we shift. At the end of the day that's what it's all about.

Jeremy Didier:  So thank you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thank you.

Diane Dempster: Jeremy, thank you so much for being here with us today. This has been fun, fun conversation for us. Do you want to leave us with a favorite quote or a motto?

Jeremy Didier: Gosh, no. I can't think of anything good. You guys see so many good things. Calming the chaos in your home. Calm and chaos are two such fabulous words.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And you can calm the chaos in your home. I think that's the message.

Diane Dempster: That's a good quote. 

Jeremy Didier: Chaos is fun sometimes, but not always. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: As long as you know it's got an endpoint. 

Jeremy Didier: Right. Thanks.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus:  All right, everybody. Thank you all for listening for tuning in. Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us and for being with us for this last almost decade and looking forward to more. Those of you listening, this is being recorded in 2021, if you're listening in the future, stay tuned because there's going to be some fun stuff coming after Jeremy gets her master's and we do some interesting work around ADHD and potentially addiction and some of these other issues. So circle back, and until then, anything else you want to say, Di?

Diane Dempster: Nope, I'm sad. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thanks, everybody, for all you're doing for kids and for yourself. Remember, you are making a difference. Take care, everyone.