Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Parenting Impact. We're really excited today to welcome one of the world’s leading experts on executive function, Seth Perler, who is with us.

He is well-known as an executive function coach and educator, a vlogger, and someone who is passionate about helping outside-the-box kids succeed.

Seth shares incredible resources with the world, supporting kids and their families, especially those who are neurodiverse, helping them navigate the challenges of having a complex brain in a complex world.

He works with parents, teachers, and kids, making a real difference in their lives. It's great to have him here for this conversation. Seth, welcome!

Seth Perler: Hi, Elaine. Hi, Diane.

Diane Dempster: We’re glad you're here. Why don’t you start by telling us a bit about what you do with families of complex kids and how you ended up doing this work in the first place?

Seth Perler: Sure. Well, I’ll begin by sharing how I got into this work. I was that kid. As a child, I struggled.

I actually still have my progress reports from when I was a kid—my mom kept them all these years. Starting in first grade, I began getting comments like, “Does not pay attention,” “Lazy,” and “Unmotivated.”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: If he had just applied himself—he’s so bright.

Seth Perler: All of them.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, not living up to his potential.

Seth Perler: Exactly. And it just kept going on. Eventually, I reached an age when I couldn’t fake it anymore. My grades started to tank, and I began getting D’s and F’s. I went to college on probation because my grades were so low, even though my test scores were high. Then I failed out of college.

I went to another college because I didn’t want to live with my parents, but I dropped out of that one before failing out. I was really struggling on multiple levels. I got fired from numerous jobs. I couldn’t do this thing called executive function—executing, getting important things done that were crucial for my life. My life was really out of control, and I was struggling in all sorts of ways.

But at some point, I started turning my life around. Eventually, I ended up getting a job working with kids, almost by accident. Back then, you had to look for jobs in these things called newspapers, which aren't really used for job hunting anymore.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Where we used pens to circle, right?

Seth Perler: Yeah, you had to go through them. I was in Indianapolis at the time, and there was a newspaper ad for a place. I got the job, started working there, and just fell in love with working with kids. That changed the entire trajectory of my life.

I became a teacher, and I taught for 12 years. I also earned a master’s in gifted and talented education. But I’ve always been drawn to complicated human beings, and I especially connect with kids who struggle. I could really sense what they were going through because I had experienced so much of it myself.

I couldn’t articulate a lot of it because it wasn’t conscious at the time. And, of course, when you're becoming a teacher, they don’t really teach you much about this. In fact, a lot of teachers— even today— have never heard of executive function. But I knew that I loved working with complicated kids who struggled. That was my passion.

So I taught for 12 years, but eventually, I left teaching because I was frustrated by feeling held back from truly serving in the way I wanted to. Life is short, and I really wanted to focus on helping these kids. That’s how I transitioned into what I’m doing now. Around 2010, I started really diving into how we can serve these families with kids who are struggling.

These are bright kids, but they feel like and appear to be failures because of the lens through which we tend to view them. That is not who they are. The challenge is helping them realize how amazing they truly are and helping them build a great life.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. So I want to go back to something you said. You mentioned that you started turning your life around and then got this job. I’m curious—because we also work with a lot of parents of young adults—what age were you, and do you have a sense of what specifically triggered you to start getting your life in order before you found that job that gave you purpose?

Seth Perler: Yeah. Well, I was 22. And I think what’s really tough for parents is that nobody could help me until, and this might sound cliché, but until I could help myself. The thing that really turned my life around was buy-in and ownership. It wasn’t my parents, it wasn’t my teachers, it wasn’t my relatives, it wasn’t my friends— it was only me.

Diane Dempster: Get buy-in and ownership.

Seth Perler: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s it. That’s what we talk about all the time.

Seth Perler: Exactly. And what happens is, we end up trying things that don’t work, like lectures, logic—

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Directing.

Seth Perler: The reason, suggestions, directing, punishments, rewards, shame—please, meaning P-L-E-A-S-E like a plea for, come on.

Diane Dempster: Come on, you can do it if you want to.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Fear.

Seth Perler: Nagging, bugging, fear. Yeah, all of these things that we use in interventions where there's no buy-in and no ownership. We try all these methods, and I'm not saying you should never try or give up on a kid—never, ever, ever give up on them.

But there has to be buy-in and ownership. When we want to be helpful, we need to really focus on how we can support them in a way where it's their idea, where they have the buy-in and the ownership. We can't just keep pushing and pushing because we see a lot of that, and it often pushes them away. It does the opposite of what we want.

And this is serious—when a kid becomes a young adult and is still struggling with these issues, the consequences can be horrific.

Diane Dempster: So let's unpack that a little bit, Seth. I mean, buy-in and ownership—parents are hungry for that. Tell us the magic formula.

What are some of the tools or strategies that can help parents in this journey? What were you going to ask, Elaine?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I just want to piggyback on that a little bit, Diane, at whatever age.

Diane Dempster: At whatever age.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, we're really not just talking about young adults here. What you're really talking about is fostering a sense of self-control.

It's about helping kids who feel out of control begin to see that they have the capacity to control themselves and have agency. So, in that context, I love the question.

Seth Perler: Yeah. I mean, there is no magic bullet. There is no quick fix. That's the first thing—parents are often looking for that one answer, but there is no single answer.

And probably the number one thing—though I wouldn't say it's necessarily the most important thing, but probably the number one thing parents don't do (I hate using the word "should," but they should) is get their own therapist. Get your own counselor. Get your own psychiatrist. Your own psychiatrist.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Coach.

Seth Perler: Get your own coach. Get your own self-development group, your own couples therapy—people who are going to hold you accountable. Do your own deep inner work, your own reading, your own journaling, your own meditation, your own prayer—whatever those things are that help you.

Your own self-care. How’s your sleep? How’s your career? How’s your joy in life? All of those things. Are you living your mission? All those things you want for your child—are you modeling that for real? 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: For real, yeah.

Seth Perler: Check yourself. And if the answer is no, or "not as much as I’d like to," focus there. It’s such an indirect answer, so not what people are looking for, but to me, I think one of the best things my parents ever did for me was get to the point where they realized they couldn’t do anything for me, and they focused on doing what they needed to do for themselves. That was one of the best things ever.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s like a counterintuitive truth. And what we often say at Impact Parents is if you don’t know what to do, there are two places to focus: focus on your own self-care and lean into your relationship with your kid.

That’s it in a nutshell. So the counterintuitive truth is that when I take care of myself, I’m actually doing something to help my kid.

Seth Perler: 100%. And then, what you say every time I finish a presentation—I say that the number one thing is the relationship, whether that’s with teachers or with the parent, it’s the number one thing. I would agree with you 100%.

The other thing is your relationship with your kid. And of course, you’re going to have a lot of parents saying, “Well, I do focus on the relationship with my kid.” We’re not talking about anxious attachment here, which can be maladaptive and dysfunctional. We all have our stuff, no question about that.

This isn’t about shaming, but when people say, “I am focused on the relationship,” that’s not exactly what we mean. What we really mean is working on how both people—the child and the parent (or the parents, together)—how can each person feel...

Notice I’d use the word “feel” here—feel seen, heard, understood, and known. Does your child walk away from a conversation with you thinking, “Wow, I don’t agree with my parent, but I feel like they heard me”? I feel heard. I feel seen. Or do they walk away saying, “You’re not listening,” and you’re going, “I am listening, blah, blah, blah”? That’s not the response when someone says, “I’m not listening.” But I am listening...

Diane Dempster: "I am listening" but is usually the—

Seth Perler: Yeah. It’s, “Oh, tell me more.” So I think a lot of this relationship stuff is about relearning patterns and habits that we don’t even think about, that we’re not conscious of. I’m a big fan of attachment theory, and I’m a big fan of polyvagal theory, but it’s about relearning how to communicate, how to notice your child’s nervous system—their shoulders, their body, their respiration, their posture, their neck position, their eyes. How to notice what their body is telling you.

The words and the story are important, but oftentimes, we’re missing out on the story beyond the story—what’s really going on underneath.

Seth Perler: The percentage of kids that are super stressed out right now is just extraordinary. And if a parent sees a kid who’s misbehaving as a misbehaving kid and not as a stressed-out kid, you’re going to handle it completely differently.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and what I’m hearing from you, and again, that’s why we’re so glad you’re here. We love having you with us because our messages are so aligned with each other.

What you’re saying is how important it is to really be conscious and mindful of how we’re communicating with our kids. What is it—90% of communication is nonverbal? What you’re speaking to is paying attention to what they’re saying that isn’t coming up in words.

If their head is in a screen all the time, if they’re going behind a door and shutting it all the time, they’re communicating volumes.

Seth Perler: Yeah. So when people come to me, they usually come because of grades, executive function—because their kids are failing or at risk of failing—and because their kids aren’t "doing what they’re supposed to be doing."

But, it ends up, while it’s about executive function, it’s really about the relationship, emotional regulation, the nervous system, communication, seeing them, and understanding, as Diane said, the stress they’re experiencing. What pressure are these kids under? It’s tremendous.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It is.

Seth Perler: It’s daunting.

Diane Dempster: Yeah. So, what is it that you want parents of complex kids to understand better about their kids? What is it that they’re missing?

Seth Perler: Well, I guess the first thing would be that the relationship is the most important thing. The second thing would be that executive function is a quality-of-life issue. It’s not just about grades or test scores or what’s going on right now.

This is for their entire life. We have to be able to execute in order to achieve our goals. And then the next thing would be what we want for their life and career. And so, what all parents want is the same thing, because I’ve heard this from hundreds or thousands—

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: All parents, right?

Seth Perler: —“I just want my kid to be happy and successful,” is what I’ve heard more than anything.

Diane Dempster: We hear the same thing. Yep.

Seth Perler: That sentence, or some iteration of that sentence, is the number one thing I’ve ever heard. And everybody defines it a little bit differently, but really getting clear on what that means—what is happiness and success?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Success—performance, or is success self-agency, self-management?

Diane Dempster: And is it your definition, or is it their definition?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Their definition.

Seth Perler: Yeah. But we can usually agree on certain things when it comes to success. It’s relationships—it’s successful relationships where we feel heard. It’s good friendships. It’s having a career you enjoy.

It doesn’t have to be your passion or the perfect thing. If they have a family, it’s having a family that’s stable and happy, and where they can work through problems. And then, also, what’s happening in this world in terms of one's ability to be financially successful.

And by successful, I just mean being able to live a good life. The cards are really stacked against these kids with executive function struggles. I mean, if they can’t execute on some pretty basic things, how are they going to be able to pay bills and keep an apartment? I’m definitely very worried about a lot of kids growing up right now and what opportunities will be like for them.

So, we really need to help everyone be able to execute and support themselves. But I think, when we look at what parents want—what is happy, healthy, and successful—the real question is, are the things we’re doing really contributing to that?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So here’s what comes up, going back just a little bit. You were saying you're worried about these kids, and probably someone in our shoes would've said the same thing 10 years ago, and 10 years before that, and 10 years before that—we just didn’t have these kids as well identified.

And yet, at the same time, what I sometimes see is parents of a 12-year-old catastrophizing about what’s going to happen 10 years from now, thinking they’ll never be able to…

And part of what actually prevents them from preparing their kids is that they’re so worried about the future that they’re not meeting their kids where they are now. Does that resonate for you?

Seth Perler: Yeah. Well, catastrophizing is the nervous system, right? So they’re using words to tell a story or narrative based on fear. But the nervous system is saying to the child, "I don’t feel safe right now. I’m your parent, and I feel dysregulated right now, and I’m going to express that to you through this story."

And so, parents—really, the more we learn about these things, our own narratives, and how they’re landing with our kids—the better we’ll be able to communicate what we’re trying to communicate in a more powerful way. But it also brings up a story from when I was in a 504 IEP meeting for a kid.

We were talking about how, I forget what grade this was, but I think it was a fifth grader, and they were requiring the kid to use a three-ring binder. Now, this kid did not have the executive function to use that binder.

Diane Dempster: Well, we could go down the rabbit hole, but they’re evaluating executive function, and at the same time, they’re not—

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Not, but not teaching.

Diane Dempster: —supporting it and not teaching it. It’s just, do you have it, or do you not?

Seth Perler: If a teacher says, "You need to use a three-ring binder," and they compassionately, empathetically, and patiently guide the kid to be able to use it throughout the semester, I don’t have a problem with that. Great. Cool. But if they’re going to then, essentially what you said, grade executive function, that is not cool.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So let’s talk a little bit about teaching executive function, because that’s what you do. That’s what you’re known for. That’s what all of the parents in our world, in our community of complex kids, want—our kids to have these skills.

They don’t know how. What are some of the foundations that help begin to shift to teach executive function skills? Because they are teachable to some extent.

Seth Perler: Yeah. So the first thing I’m going to say is, at the beginning, you mentioned something like "executive function guru stuff" earlier. I don’t know anything. Don’t listen to me. Ignore everything I say. Filter it, and then do what you want to do anyway.

I want to start off by saying that I’m just a guy who cares about this stuff. I see things that seem to work, but now, having said that, I’m going to weigh in.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You have some experience, right?

Seth Perler: My life is obsessed with figuring this stuff out. There are many people—coaches, various people—who do things differently than I do, but I will give you a model that works. But it’s definitely not "the be-all, end-all." Do what you need to do for your kid.

So, having said that, what I talk about is basically that there are these three things we want to do. We want to give kids a foundation in executive function. So there’s the foundation first, and then there’s what I call implementation, and then there’s maintenance. So three things: First, foundation. Then, implementation. Then, maintenance.

All that means is we need to give them a foundation. Let’s say it’s a toolbox. We need to give them a foundation of, "Hey, this is a hammer. This is a screwdriver. This is this, this is that." And then the implementation is, "Hey, this is how you use the hammer.

There are actually many, many, many ways you can use this amazing tool, and this is how you use this tool and that tool." We practice using them. That’s implementation.

So first, the foundation. Giving them a foundation takes a couple of months. Doing the implementation can take months to years, as it did in my case.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And developmentally, they’re growing, so they’re going to have different needs over the years.

Seth Perler: Yep. And the prefrontal cortex, the front part of the brain where executive function happens, continues to develop until they’re 25 or 30. It’s the last part of the brain to develop, and we’re freaking out at 12.

Diane Dempster: Right. And they’ve still got another 15 years.

Seth Perler: Yeah, but we do want to take action and guide them. Then maintenance is, once they've learned to use the tools and have implemented them for a while, they enter the phase of sharpening the sword. They've got it. Before we started, you both mentioned Basecamp.

I don’t use Basecamp, but I happen to know it’s a project management tool, and we are currently executing a project. Creating this piece of content is a project. So, that's one of your tools.

I wouldn't know how to be in maintenance with Basecamp, but I'm in maintenance with project management, where I have my own systems. So that’s an example.

Now, with the foundations, parents are going to be asking, "Okay, Seth, cool. So what are the foundations? What are the things they need to learn?" I talk about three foundations, and here's how I group them: systems, mindsets, habits, and routines.

First, you need systems. For example, Basecamp is a project management system, or a to-do list or calendar. Planning – there are many systems for planning, so we need to have systems in place that we can use.

Next, mindsets. The mindset that the students I work with tend to default to with executive function is what I call the "resistance mindset." The resistance mindset says, "I am going to resist executing the things I don't feel like doing."

Whether it’s homework, organizing a backpack, cleaning a bedroom, putting stuff in the right folder, writing my name on my paper, clicking submit on the online portal, checking my online grades, or emailing my teacher—whatever it is that they don’t feel like doing, they are resistant to. It’s, “I don’t feel like it. This is stupid.

Why do I have to do this? I’ll do it later, tomorrow, or never. This doesn’t make sense. What am I ever going to use this for?” It’s resistance.

I like to keep it simple. The mindset that holds us back is resistance. The mindset we want is something like Carol Dweck’s growth mindset, but it's more about thinking, "Okay, I can do this. I may not like it, but I can handle it. I can figure out how to get this done.

I can get it done now. I don’t have to procrastinate." We want a mindset that says, "I notice my resistance, but I’m going to do it anyway. This is for my own good, for my own life."

Finally, we get into habits and routines. If you have a system and a good mindset, like using your planner even when you don’t feel like it, we still need habits and routines around when and how to use that system. There are all these habits and routines we have to build.

Now, this is a very simplistic overview of these three things, but it’s...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But it's a nice framework. Really nice.

Seth Perler: Thank you. I've been obsessed with this for years.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, can I ask a quick question before we move on? Where does motivation come in?

Seth Perler: Let’s hold on. Let’s back up and wrap up. So we have the foundations, the implementation, and the maintenance.

Within the foundations, we have systems, mindsets, habits, and routines. Once we have these systems, mindsets, habits, and routines as a foundation, we can implement them more and more, and then reach the maintenance phase.

That’s when a parent might say, "My kid’s going to be okay." Now, that might not happen until they’re 38... [overlapping] work.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Look, I remember the tears the first time my kid put something on a calendar. It was like, "Oh, wow, okay. There’s hope, right?" But it took years.

Seth Perler: Baby steps.

Diane Dempster: Well, and the thing that’s coming up for me, Seth, is going back to the beginning when we were talking about buy-in and ownership.

It’s like, yeah, the formula is awesome, but there seems to be this foundation before the foundation.

Seth Perler: The relationship. So how am I going to get a kid to work with me? Because trust me, the kids are not seeking me out—it’s the parents.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We know.

Seth Perler: And the parents say, "Oh, we found this great coach for you. This guy’s name is Seth."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: He doesn’t want help, but he needs it.

Seth Perler: Right. And they’re going to be like, “Seth, I don’t want to talk to this idiot.” How am I going to get some angsty 17-year-old kid who doesn’t want to do boring homework, blah, blah, blah? Well, it starts with the relationship.

I have to create a relationship where there’s buy-in and ownership, and they feel like it’s for them and they feel heard. I can’t work with anybody unless I establish that.

So, if you look at my website, I have a course I run, and on the course, there’s a video for the kids that’s basically a buy-in video. It says something like, "If you’re looking at this idiot here and you don’t like me, tell your parents you don’t want to work with me because it won’t do anything for you."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So, I want to bring you back to motivation because I love your framework. I love the construct, and again, a lot of alignment.

I love the piece about mindset and the resistance. There’s something about helping kids understand what might be causing their resistance. It’s not just that they’re being obstinate, but they’re resisting for a reason. It’s effortful. They don’t have the traction.

They’ve got a working memory issue—that’s where the executive function comes in. So, one piece I want to look at is helping them understand the resistance, and then where does motivation fit into this construct?

Seth Perler: Interestingly, I hardly ever talk about motivation. This is just my take on it, but there’s a lot of great research about motivation, the brain, brain chemicals, and things like that. The reason I don’t talk about it is because it’s so misunderstood.

And I don’t talk about it with my kids, really, ever. However, I am working with motivation. So, I’ll answer your question in a concrete way. Essentially, what we’re trying to do is motivate a kid to do something they don’t want to do. That’s what we’re trying to do.

We’re saying, “You have this want,” and that is to have a good life. And you don’t even know you have this want because you’re a kid, and your brain isn’t developed enough to understand that there will be consequences—both positive and negative—for your choices and actions now.

But we see that, because we are wise adults, even if you don’t see it yet. So, we want you to be motivated to do things you don’t want to do so that you can have the life you want.

So that’s essentially what we’re saying. And then we’re saying, we know that you need to be motivated to plan, to organize, to do your homework, to put effort into your schoolwork, to learn things, to push yourself beyond.

We know that if you can be motivated to do these things, you’ll open doors for yourself. So, that’s the whole thing here. What happens is that we end up having conversations with our kids that go something like this: "Why can’t you just motivate yourself? If you would just get motivated, if you would just be more disciplined, why are you so unmotivated?"

And the idea is that if we have this logical conversation, or punishing conversation, or rewarding conversation—like, “What if I give you a hundred bucks for every A?”—blah, blah, blah. If we have these conversations, we think they’re going to logically make sense to the child that’s...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We’re going to convince them.

Seth Perler: That’s changing their execution patterns, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Correct.

Seth Perler: So, how do I motivate kids? I don’t. I don’t worry about it, but I do, though I don’t talk to them like that. What I do talk about is why it’s important to plan, or whatever the task is. Why it’s important.

Oftentimes, we don’t even talk about why it’s important, or if we do, we do it in a shaming way. So, talking about why it’s important and how it benefits them is really key. It’s important for them to understand that there are reasons for these things.

Another thing is, it’s not always just about motivation, because these kids have never been taught these executive function skills.

Kids with strong executive function have naturally been practicing these little micro-skills for years. But it's not been through direct instruction—at least, not much. We don’t see how they’ve put a penny in the piggy bank over and over again, thousands of times, since kindergarten.

Meanwhile, the other kid in fifth grade has nothing in the piggy bank of his executive function. It’s gone in one ear and out the other. They haven’t been building skills, so there’s a big deficit there.

So it’s really about compassionately breaking down how to use a calendar. We have a middle school with a thousand kids in every town here, and they buy a thousand planners, give them to the kids.

And there's 10 pages in the beginning of the planner about how to use a planner. Who reads that?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right, exactly.

Diane Dempster: I don’t even think I read them.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: You wouldn’t be the kid who would, right?

Seth Perler: Well, some kids who are highly organized might.

Diane Dempster: I would have been the kid who would've, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I would not have.

Seth Perler: But these kids definitely don’t read it. It’s like, we’re going to give you this tool, but it really is like imagining you have a six-year-old and you give them a super powerful tool with an instruction booklet. They don’t know how to use it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Unless it’s technology, but we’re not going to go there.

Diane Dempster: Well, if they don’t know how to use that either, they figure it out because they understand.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because they’re interested. Understanding and interest are motivating.

Seth Perler: It’s motivating, right. And we’re asking them to do something that’s not motivating and doesn’t give them a dopamine rush or anything.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Sometimes, although I’ll push back a little bit, because sometimes our kids really struggle to do things, even when they want to.

I mean, I’ve seen it with my own kids. It’s like, “I want to do this,” and I’m having a really hard time getting myself to do what I want.

Seth Perler: Well, that is an executive function skill, though.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly, yeah.

Seth Perler: Yeah. So, part of executive function is self-starting, task commitment, and follow-through. So, starting, continuing, finishing.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Activating and initiating is hard. Yeah.

Seth Perler: Yeah. So, those are all part of executive function. They run up against resistance, and they don’t have the emotional regulation skill, which is also part of executive function, to say, “I feel resistant, but I can keep going.”

So that’s also the mindset I was talking about. But it’s also about the nervous system. We feel uncomfortable, and we want to stop the discomfort, rather than having the grit to push through and say, “I can do this.”

We’ve had enough experiences where it’s so frustrating. And if we do ask our parents or someone to help, they’re not going to help us in the way we really need. They’ll just say something like, “Try harder.” So, anyhow, they don’t know how to use the skill.

So, to "motivate them," we really have to teach them, over and over, how to use a planner, how to organize, or whatever the task is. In teaching them that, we have to do what I call "chunking," which is breaking it down into very small, bite-sized pieces.

It’s not just handing them a planner that’s often a hundred pages thick. And then there are things in there that aren’t planners, like commonly misspelled words and the periodic table...

Diane Dempster: And seven pages of instructions.

Seth Perler: ...in the school handbook. And for this kiddo, all they need is a simple planner and then to be taught how to use it over and over again. So, I don’t motivate them. What I do is walk them through the actions over and over.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Repetitively.

Seth Perler: Okay. So, I might say, "All right, let’s get out your planner." "Oh, I don’t feel like it." "Cool. You don’t feel like it. Why not?" So first, I hear them out, understand, "Well, blah, blah." "Cool. I understand. Let’s do it anyway.

Trust me. I promise I swear I will make this painless. Why don’t I get it out for you?" Whatever the thing is, we get out the planner. And I really have to read their nervous system. If they’re really resistant, I’ll be like, "Look, let’s do one thing in your planner, one page, one homework assignment, whatever." I have to chunk it down.

Now, will I try to get them to do more? Of course, I will. But they have to know that they’re safe. If they say, "No, Seth, you said we were going to do one thing in the planner," I will say, "Cool, you’re right. I’m done."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Done today, yeah.

Seth Perler: They have to know that. But sometimes we’ll get 17 things done, and then they’ll finally be like, "Hey, I thought you said we were going to do one."

And I’ll be like, "Nope, I just manipulated you." Now, I want you to notice that, because part of this game is you manipulating yourself, you tricking yourself. Manipulation sounds so bad, but you tricking yourself into doing so much of it is important.

I want them to connect the dot that what I just did is something you need to learn how to do if you want to have a life where you have possibilities and choices, and a good future.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I’m going to stop for a minute.

Seth Perler: So that’s what I do with motivation a lot. I just walk them through the process over and over very compassionately, empathetically, noticing their nervous system and being patient, whereas parents are like, "Oh my gosh, if they don’t get this done, they’re going to have to retake the class, and they’re going to fail." And it’s like, we’ll get there. We’ll get there quicker by slowing down.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Slow down to speed up. I can't believe we’re well over time, so we need to really wrap up this conversation because it was stimulating, fabulous, and fascinating. Seth, tell people how they can find you first.

Seth Perler: Well, I’m super excited about the summit, which you are on, Elaine, and it’s called TFOs, the Executive Function Online Summit, at executivefunctionsummit.com. I am currently getting ready for that, and it’s on August 20th, 2021. It’s an amazing weekend. It’s a free online summit for parents. Or you can go...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Executivefunction.com is what I think I heard.

Seth Perler: Executivefunctionsummit.com.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Summit.com.

Seth Perler: Yep. Or sethperler.com, or YouTube—look me up, any of those things.

Diane Dempster: I was just going to say, if somebody’s listening to this after the summit’s over, can they still go to the website and get the recordings and all that other good stuff?

Seth Perler: Yep. You can buy the summit if you want. It’s free during the days that it’s live. And then my website, sethperler.com, is filled with free resources, free videos.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: All sorts of great stuff.

Seth Perler: All sorts of great stuff. So if you’re a parent, teacher, therapist—

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or a coach.

Seth Perler: —or coach.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Remember, we’re coming from a coach approach.

Diane Dempster: Seth, is there anything else we haven’t talked about that you want to share with our listeners, or hopefully parents, to take away from our conversation?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Bottom line.

Seth Perler: I mean, I think we really did cover it. It’s the doing your own deep inner work—that’s the number one. Work on the relationship. Learn about attachment theory and polyvagal theory. And I think those are some of the main things.

And then what we talked about with the systems, mindsets, habits, and routines. But I think the number one thing is the relationship. Build that relationship, and that starts with working on yourself and your stuff. There are resources out there to help.

Don’t think building the relationship means you’ve got to figure it all out. You don’t have to figure it out. People can help you figure it out. Go find them.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. That is the bulk of what we do, is exactly that. So thanks for that lob. Wrap up. Do you have a favorite quote, motto, or mantra, or something that you want to share?

Seth Perler: So I was thinking about that, and I guess the thing that stood out to me about the favorite quote or mantra or whatever is just the word "baby steps." The word "baby steps" or the word "micro successes." This is about taking small steps and patiently and persistently taking more and more and more.

Not thinking, "Oh, I’ve been working with Diane and Elaine for a month, and I’m not seeing any difference." This is about the long game. This is about really diving deep, whatever it is, getting your therapist, and then six months later being like, "Wow, my relationship with my child is different when I reflect back."

We’re here to do real work, and that’s where we see real change. Baby steps, baby steps, baby steps.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We call it taking the marathon view. You’re in this for the long haul. So baby steps lead to total transformation, but it happens in tiny little increments. Love that. Thank you so much for being here.

Diane Dempster: Seth, thank you so much for being here. It’s been great to talk to you.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thanks to those of you listening, and we will catch you on the next episode.