Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome, everybody. We are excited for today's conversation with Dr. Roseann, who is a new colleague. And the first thing I said when we met each other was how is it that we've never met each other before, I'm so excited to have this connection. Dr. Roseann is a mental health trailblazer. She is the founder of the Global Institute of Children's Mental Health and a media expert who is changing the way that we view and treat children's mental health. So as you can tell she's already one of our new best friends. Her work has helped thousands reverse some of the more challenging conditions that families are facing with our complex kids. Not just ADHD, but anxiety, mood issues, Lyme disease that's been so big in the last couple of years, PANS and PANDAS, which we're seeing a lot more in our community as well. And she's all about using proven holistic therapies, evidence-based natural solutions. And so, we're really excited to move into a conversation with you today about the work that you're doing the changes that you're making for children and their families. One of the things we discovered in our pre-conversation is that Roseann works with the kids, and we work with parents, and it's a nice little synergy. So really excited to have this conversation. Diane, do you want to kick us off?

Diane Dempster: Yeah. So, Dr. Roseann, why don't you start by talking a little bit about how you came to this work and the work that you do with families of complex kids? 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. Thank you for that awesome introduction. And I'm really excited for this conversation. And whenever we can help parents open their eyes to possibilities and create belief when we're feeling so scared because when our kids are struggling, all of us, I'm a special needs mom times two, nothing else seems to matter if your kid is struggling. And so I'm always saying, which is the title of my book, It's Going to be OK, because there are so many resources out there. And podcasts like this make such a huge difference in parents' lives and really help to change the trajectory of kids' lives by opening up. So how I decided to do this work and become a psychologist and a therapist? It really started for me as a calling. When I was five years old, my mom's friend, Angela, I recall, asked me what I wanted to be, and I told her a psychiatrist. And I had no exposure to mental health. I'm the daughter of Italian immigrant parents.

And it just literally came into me. And as I got older, I realized that psychiatrists really just are people that offer medication solutions, and that's not what I wanted to do. I really wanted to guide people and show them the way. And when I was an undergraduate, I started working with kids and really fell in love with them because I found that a little bit of effort and attention could have such a dramatic effect on kids. And I was like, “This is what I got to do.” And then because I'm Dr. Ro and who I am, I'm always like, what's the solution? We're going to figure this out. I was working as a school psychologist and also had a private practice. And I just quickly got known as the person that you bring your kid to when you can't figure out what's going on.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: [inaudible]

Diane Dempster: That sort of, what is it Dr. Ro can help you?

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. So it's like the solution find you're the fixer, and I just got really complex cases. And this is actually my 30th year in mental health. I feel so privileged, but this was about 20-something years ago, and I started working on my own and then just eventually left working in a school because there was just such a need. And what I did even back then, I was always doing beyond talk therapy. What we know about the brain is that talk therapy is completely ineffective if somebody has a stress-activated nervous system. So you had to think outside the box. You had to bring movement in it. You had to do sensory work. You had to do play therapy. You had to do other things. But then, even that got me to a point and then I found neurofeedback. And even before then, I was doing homeopathy and supplements and nutrition and finding some levels of success, always improvement to some degree, but it wasn't until I really found neurofeedback that it was just like, found this game changer that regulated the nervous system. So that's really how I started working with complex cases is really they found me. And I love it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, I can totally relate to it. But you said something a moment ago about having your own special needs kid. So somewhere, your journey must have blended with your work.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. So, of course, this is how it goes. I was somebody who's very career focused and got married very young, and we waited ten year before we had kids. So I already worked with special needs kids. I already was working with people with Lyme disease. If you live in the northeast, and you're not actively learning about Lyme disease and helping people with Lyme disease, I actually think it's criminal as a therapist and a medical provider to not be supporting because these people are everywhere, whether you want to accept it or not. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's true. 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: So, 25 years ago, I got my first Lyme patient. I'm going to bring this back. So, of course, you have these kids. I'm super alternative. I mean, we were doing detoxification protocols before we had kids, like super clean eaters, all this other stuff. And I have this kid, and he came out very intense started talking at seven and a half months, was really pretty happy kid. A terrible sleeper. Like it's an urban legend, I think these kids that sleep through the night. I'm just saying.

Diane Dempster: I actually had one, not two, but just one.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Wow. And anyway, long story short, Max, my 16-year-old at 22 months, within six months, we realized that Lyme disease and multiple tick-borne infections. And 14-and-a-half years later, we're still on this journey.  What we later realized is he's a kid with PANS, which is a toxic or infectious disease trigger that creates, in his case, psychiatric issues. And so he's had waxing and waning period. They called it flares over the years, and then his brother John Carlos five-and-a-half years later, we decided to have another kid because it's hell. Having a kid with PANS or PANDAS is hell. And he's easiest kid you've ever met in your life, but he's dyslexic. And his dyslexia is so secondary for him because we do very alternative types of education, and he's just thriving. But that's the way it goes. You think you're doing all these things, and these kids find you. They come to you. Everyone always is like these kids couldn't have landed in a better place. And I was like, absolutely, but it's still hard.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yes, it is still hard. We're talking to you with a couple of hats on. You got the Dr. Ro hat. You got the parent hat. What the parents need to understand about their kids that you often experience that they might be missing? What do they need to see differently? 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Oh, there's so many things I want to say to that, but I think the first thing that parents have to number one, you got to get the hell off the worry train. We’ve all been driving the worry train at first at different times. And I get it. We've been there. All three of us have been there, which you've got to get off. And people get caught in a worry loop and a negative thinking loop, and they don't believe they don't see how their child can get better. And that is the 100% biggest limiter of your kid. I'm going to tell you right now, and it's something that I literally am dealing with every day with people. They are like, I believe this is going to work. But-

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It's so huge.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: I know. Oh, my kid is so much better. He's way more focused. His grades went up. His friends are like, but do you think it's time for medication? And I'm like, what the hell are we talking about? You spent six years trying to get to this point, and now you're still talking about meds? Like they get so caught up that there's some type of quick fix. That's the other part of this. There is no, as I have on my desk, a magic wand. 

Diane Dempster: Wait, you have a magic wand? That's so cool.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: There's no magic wand. We think there is, so you have to stop that. You have to understand that healing isn't vertical. It's not a rocket. It's something that looks like the stock market. That's really more of what it looks like, and that's okay. So believe. Know that healing is not rocket going to space that it's not vertical, but it has a positive trajectory, and you got to stick with your belief, and you got to stick with your consistency. And really, just start to understand that there are other things in the world that can do that you can do, like all these therapies we talked about in my book It's Going To Be OK. And you really have to just consistently see that is the power of what's happening in your kid to really believe. I honestly think that's just something that is so hard for parents.

Diane Dempster: That's what I was going to say. It's because it's so hard; that's the core thing. It's easy to say, just don't worry, but that's the core of everything. 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: The core of everything.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: A huge part of what we talk about with parents. I love this so much is this notion of creating a vision, like helping them see what's possible instead of what's not possible.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Hold the vision.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Parents come in this place of desperation. And our job is to help them find the inspiration so that they can be inspiring parents to their kids instead of freaked-out parents to their kids. 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. And part of that, and I'm always talking about hold the vision, adjust for the circumstance. The other part of this is that what is your vision? Because a lot of times, parents come in and are like, I want my kid to be happy and healthy, but the bottom line is really they're only going to be happy if their kids a straight-A student. And so they want to fit them in the box. And I think so many of our kids are unique. So like my John Carlo, I talk about him all the time. He's my 10-year-old. I'm basically carding marriage offers already because he's just so fabulous, and his father is so fabulous. He's just such a thoughtful kid. He's so thoughtful. We'll save everything written about him, and he doesn't see himself as a dyslexic. Like the other day, we were coming home from the car. And he's like, I'm just so smart, mom. And I thought I have done my job right. This is a kid who had some pretty serious dyslexia. He doesn't see himself as that.

He sees himself as this wonderful kid, this really smart kid. Why? I didn't do traditional schooling for him. And not everybody can afford to put their kid in a private school. I got one kid that's homeschooled. Another kid that goes to a private school, and it's a very unique school that hones on your strengths. And so he has these unbelievable strengths. He's such a good friend. He's so accepting and great communicator. He has off-the-charts, hands-on skills. And so I put him in a school that's like all hands-on. It's a democratic process school. He loves to do the right thing, so it's like perfect for him because he always [inaudible] doing the right thing. So finding your kid's strength and supporting that. I know we want to believe we do that with so many of the struggles that I see kids having is because they're saying like, he's got to have this, she's got to do this.

And then parents, it feeds into the worry. And I think when you break free and say, I'm not going to do this. It's like my neighbors always say why don't you join the country club? I was like, I'll be kicked out in three days. Okay. It's not for me. I'm going to be like, what are you doing feeding the kids chicken nuggets? We're a country club. You got to get some good food for them. You know what I mean? I would start getting in conflict. It's not for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking you down if you're in a country club, but I know where my strengths are. Now, you had a holistic country club. How about a special needs holistic country club? I don't care where it is. I'm flying into it.

Diane Dempster: [inaudible] And what's coming up for me is that we say this a lot about our world, our school system is when our kids are challenged, instead of focusing on the things they do well, we focus on trying to improve the things that they're struggling with. And so what you've been able to do and what you're recommending is even if you do some of that, make sure you're focused on giving your kids an environment and exploration around the things that they love and what they're passionate about.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: And that's such a great point, Diane, because, for 20-something years, I did neuro-psych testing, and no, I don't do it now. And no, you can't pay me enough money to do it at this point. My last case is worked out in federal court just saying. And what did I do? I did not do what a typical eval. I sat parents down and was like, look, I'm going to talk to you about all the things that are wrong so that we can get x, y, and z in school or whatever, make a program, but I want you to hear what is right with your kid. And I'm also going to tell you in this eval what your kid should do for a living and how you're going to cultivate that. And they would be blown away. And we do you have to balance that Diane like, what are their strengths? What are their aptitudes? What are their needs, just like that IEP page, okay?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I'm thinking about so one of my kids is also dyslexic, and she was at a special needs school for a couple of years. And what was amazing about it was that, yes, they were working with her to help her learn how to read and write English. That was important. But they also had her in an accelerated math group. And her calm down thing when she was stressed out in the classroom was to have Sudokus. So they totally played to the strengths. As you described, she saw herself as a smart, capable kid rather than only seeing herself dyslexic.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: That's right. Yeah. In a world where everyone feels like they're perfect with Facebook and all this other stuff. It's really hard on kids today. I think that's the biggest trend that I've seen in 30 years. It's just so hard to be different. It was always hard to be different as somebody, of course, who was different. But growing up, and I grew up in the '70s and '80s, it was pretty easy to be different in the '70s and '80s. You were allowed to be different.

Diane Dempster: I guess it depends on where you grew up. That's true.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: To where you live. I'm not sure if that was true for me.

Diane Dempster: That's true. So, Dr. Ro, we've been talking about a couple of ways for parents to have a more powerful impact on their kids. We have watching the worry, knowing about the trajectory of healing, and then this while focusing on their strengths. What are some of the other things that parents can do to have a more powerful impact on their kids?

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: So we talk about trends like I like to talk about what do I see as something that is really hurting our kids that parents can have a dramatic impact. So our kids today don't have coping skills. They have very low-stress tolerance. And there's a direct correlation in the way that we're parenting and the helicoptering we're doing with our dramatic increase in anxiety and other clinical issues. But anxiety is the biggest issue that I've seen. And now the average age of anxiety disorder is six now.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Especially in the last couple years.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Last couple of years, and that's pre-pandemic. So parents making tweaks to how they talk to their kids to really flip that dialogue so kids can gain coping skills is a really powerful, powerful tool that parents are not aware of, and they don't know how to implement. And so I talk a lot about it in my book and a lot of my work. And so what does that look like? What does that mean?

Diane Dempster: Give us an example.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: So what's happening is we are accommodating our kids. We are saying, oh my gosh, honey, you got to see, I'm calling the teacher. I'm going to find out why she gave you a C.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Not that you earned it. 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Not that you earned, but I'm going to get to the bottom of this. Don't you worry about it. This is a normal thing in America. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Parents are now calling employers for kids in their 20s. I mean, this is all on its own kind of pandemic, what you’re describing.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Right. So that's a big thing. But really, what would happen if your kid came in and said, I'm very upset that you got to C. This is how you teach him to cope. You say you got to C. Okay. Why do you think you got to C? You don't have to yell at him. You don't have to have to do anything. I think I got a C. I don't know. The last time you got an A, what did you do differently? I studied. I had flashcards. So you didn't do that this time. What do you think you need to do the next time? Okay. Yeah. Do you need any help with that? No. Okay, great. We're not letting our kids have many failures. And so when big things happen, hello, hot mess fall apart.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I just have to point out that you have just demonstrated our model that we teach parents.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Oh, good.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: So stage one is directing. Stage two is collaboration. In collaboration, you start asking questions. You ask lots and lots of questions, engage with them, get their agency and their buy-in. And then you said how can I support you? You moved into stage three, which is support, so you just had fabulously modeled [inaudible]

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Thank you. I'm so glad. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thank you so much.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: The research says one of the most effective styles of parenting is autonomy-supportive parenting. We need independent thinkers, people. And that comes with some freakin’ failures. And I think parents are so well-meaning. I mean, you guys are working so hard. Every parent who's had a kid that they had a homeschool in the pandemic, you need a purple heart, for crying out loud. But they don't understand that these little slips to get your kid to problem solve to reinforce their tolerating uncomfortable emotions, because that's a big part of this is that what's the psychology of this is that we don't want our kids to experience uncomfortable emotions, anxiety, grief, upset. These are normal emotions. And when you let your kids experience them, not live there, but experience them, they find ways to cope. And they are way better at managing other issues, small issues, big issues, and medium issues. And our job as parents is to prepare them to be independent, not to be a straight-A student, people.

Diane Dempster: And the thing for me, because this whole thing of failure and especially if you've got a kid with executive function issues, like a lot of the parents I know that are listening do a lot of us think okay, if I let them fail, they'll do better next time, or they're trying harder next time. But what you're saying is that failure isn't about the motivation. Failure is about helping them develop the coping skills. And what I love about what you modeled was you're working with the child to learn from it and not expecting them to just learn from it because sometimes they just won't. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: In our framework, we call it failing forward.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: I love that. And let's talk about this because I'm always nerdy, brainy stuff with Dr. Ro, like, what's the science behind things? Everything I do is science-informed. I got 40 pages of research citation single-spaced in my book. I don't mess around because I want people to know we got to think about how we support kids and parents, and we need to look at the research. And that's what's guiding us so your work is research-informed. And so what happens in learning? So automatic learning and innate learning where you don't have to think about learning like driving a stick shift; you have to do something 34 times to master it on an automatic level. For a child with ADD, a child with learning problems, emotional problems, it's a minimum of three times that amount that they have to practice.

Diane Dempster: Like a hundred.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: A hundred. I've been telling parents this for, like, 20 years, and I remember, they're like, thank God, you said that to me because I felt like I'm always saying the same things. So no, just like you, Elaine, it's not an instantaneous. I have one kid, my little dyslexic, there's many things that he can do that's like, I don't even have to finish a sentence. He's got it. You know what I mean? But then there's other times where his dyslexia shows up, like somebody's name or some other component, and it will show up in this way. He could not memorize his birthday forever. But he could come in, and I could put something down in a weird place in the house. And he was like, oh, mom, you left it in the second drawer, behind the other thing. He wasn't paying attention. And he's the guy that has a location memory that's off the charts. So we have to honor what our kids' strengths are. We have to honor where their weaknesses are, and we have to work with that. Parenting is teaching. It's not punishment.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. Exactly. So, it's hard to believe that we need to start wrapping up the conversation because it feels like we just got started. We could talk to you for hours. Is there anything else you want to share that you hope parents will take away from today? Because there's a lot of gold nuggets that you’ve shared with me so far.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah, I mean, I think for me, we work with parents of kids that are struggling, whether it's attention learning or behavior. And so many kids are struggling, and know that one in two kids in America 10-year-old research has a physical or mental health problem. It's not as unique. And what I just want to say to parents is like, first of all, consider evidence-based holistic therapies. Open your mind to things like neurofeedback, biofeedback, very specific types of psychotherapy, or parenting work. Whatever you're doing, stick with it.

Have faith that it will work and do the work. Don't expect it to be a miracle. These things can be miraculous. They can change the life of your child, but you have to be part of it. You have to believe, and you have to be like, okay, this didn't happen overnight. It's not going to get fixed overnight. And if you really want to get to the root cause, you really want to get to those underpinnings that are causing this neurological habituation, these behaviors to happen over and over, you've got to be consistent. Now you understand why that your kid can't learn at the same rate. I don't care if their IQ is 137. They still can't flush the toilet, put their stuff away, or follow five-step directions. That's going to impact them. So we've got to get to those pieces that are underneath it and teach them in a different way, and that means being consistent.

And that's where the belief and hope comes in. Because if you see it, you visualize it, you hold that vision, you can create a totally different life for not just your kid, even your family, you can stop this friction. I mean, kids with learning challenges or attentional challenges, it's hard. It's frustrating. You think sometimes they're purposeful with their behavior. I'm here to tell you that nine times out of 10, your kid’s behavior is never purposeful. Maybe on a subconscious level, they're acting in repeating. Just be consistent, pick treatments that are effective, and don't jump to medication first. It has the least efficacy, despite what pharma is telling you. And I just want to open up the possibilities to let people know that there are so many things, from supplements to whatever it is, there's lots of things that can help your kids focus and learn and regulate. It's all about regulating the nervous system. That's the basis of my work. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Love it. Thank you. So how can people find out more about you? How can they get in touch with you? 

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Yeah. I'm Roseann everywhere. So if you're listening, it's d-r-r-o-s-e-a-n-n, and that's dotcom. I'm on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram there. And if you're interested in my book, you can go to itsgoingtobeok.com. When you put in your receipt that you bought your book, you get a bunch of free gifts, including those coping statements. So I have a list of over 100 coping statements that most of the time, parents print out multiple copies, and you can get that for free.

Diane Dempster: Awesome. Great resources. Thank you. Roseann. So as a wrap-up, what we'd love to do is to have you share a favorite quote, a favorite motto, something that really sticks for you that you want us to remember.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: There's so many quotes and mottos that I love. It's hard for me, but I would say my quote is I tell every parent it's going to be okay. And that's why I titled my book; it's going to be ok because they need to know it's going to be okay. And I really say that genuinely to people because I've been on the other side. 

Again, I'm driving the worry train. And so when you partner with somebody to help your child, and you really believe that it's going to work, there's just so many solutions out there, and it's the right treatment at the right time in the right order. And it can make such a huge difference. And parents feel like they're a failure because their kid is struggling. I mean, hello, I'm Dr. Ro, and my kid has struggled or whatever. There's things that happen, and it just means you have to have belief, whatever it is. You have to have a great drive, and there's so much more. Even if you feel like you've done everything, I promise you, you haven't.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I love that.

Diane Dempster: I love the quote, “It's all going to be ok.” And I'm going to trump it and take it a step further. And what I love is it's going to all be okay in the end. If it doesn't feel okay yet, it's not the end.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I always play with, as you were saying, talking about belief. What was coming to me is if you believe you can or you can't, you're absolutely right.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Your brain will believe anything you tell it. This is what happens. Our subconscious is running the show, so tell it good stuff. 

Diane Dempster: Awesome.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thank you for being here, Roseann.

Roseann Capanna-Hodge: Loved our conversations, ladies.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: We have, too, very much.

Diane Dempster: And thanks, everybody, for being here with us. 

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Thanks for all you are doing for yourself and for your kids. Remember, you're making a difference.