Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Parenting with Impact podcast. It's Elaine and Diane here with you again today.

Diane Dempster: This is part two. Part two!

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right! Last time we met—when you last listened to us—we talked about four common sources of conflict in family dynamics. Today, we’re going to dive into some remedies. It’s great to identify why we have these problems, but now let’s start talking about what we can do about them, right?

Diane Dempster: Do something!

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly—let’s do something about it.

Diane Dempster: Well, just to quickly recap from the last episode—please go back and listen to it if you haven’t yet—here are the four sources of conflict we talked about.

The first one was power and priorities: whose priorities matter more and who has the power to decide which priorities take precedence.

The second was trust and closeness, which is about whether the other person feels like you’ve got their back.

The third was respect and recognition: do I feel valued as a person? Do my perspectives and life experiences matter?

And the fourth was unrealistic expectations and lagging skills. This often applies to our kids, and sometimes to co-parents or others, particularly when neurodiversity is a factor. We sometimes set unrealistic expectations for them, and that can lead to conflict.

So, I don’t want to oversimplify things, but those are the four sources we discussed.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I want to share something with you. This morning, I had a conversation with a member of our community who just finished Saturday School, the live class we recently hosted. She called because she had an amazing experience with it.

She has an almost 18-year-old son, and when I asked her some questions to dig a little deeper, she was trying to figure out her next steps—what kind of coaching she might want. What really stood out to me was what she shared about her takeaways from Saturday School. She said the awareness around the power dynamic—asking, “Whose agenda is it?”—really helped improve things like respect and recognition, understanding lagging skills, and building trust and closeness.

I asked her, on a scale of 1 to 10, where she felt her relationship with her son was right now. And, you know, with a 17-year-old, that can land anywhere on the spectrum. But she said it was very high—like a nine! She felt that Saturday School really reinforced a lot of important concepts for her.

I’m sharing this because it ties so closely to what we’re talking about today. When we lean into the relationship, approach things from a place of collaboration and respect, and understand the underlying challenges, we begin fostering ownership in their agenda. And that, in turn, reduces conflict in such a powerful way.

Diane Dempster: So, what’s coming up for me is a couple of things. Elaine, I’m thinking about the independence pyramid. We can reference people back to that diagram and the fact that it’s—

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: In that podcast episode.

Diane Dempster: Yes, thank you. At the base of that pyramid are relationship, trust, and communication, which are key aspects of this.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: It’s a great reminder that once you start building that foundation, it doesn’t mean conflict goes away. And I think this is something I want to reiterate—I talked about this last time—conflict is normal. We will always have conflict.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: How do we do that?

Diane Dempster: It's about how we deal with worldviews. We like to think that life would be boring if there weren’t conflict. If everybody liked the same movie or had the same perspective on handling different issues, it wouldn’t be as interesting. Conflict is part of what makes relationships juicy and engaging.

If we can look beneath the surface of the conflict instead of just saying, "Okay, we're fighting," or "We're arguing," we can uncover what's really going on. We often talk about the difference between ending an argument and resolving the conflict. A lot of the time, we teach this in Sanity School. We focus on triggers, trigger management, communication skills, and similar strategies.

This approach helps us navigate conflict without necessarily turning it into an argument. The conflict itself still happens, but if we dig deeper, we can identify the root issue. It might be that we see the world differently, or I feel like you don’t understand my perspective, or I feel like you’re setting unrealistic expectations for me. Whatever the case may be, getting to the core of the issue is key.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. And when you start applying some of these skills, you’re able to design and have really effective conversations. She gave an example of her child dealing with in-class suspension and some other school-related issues. By using these tools and addressing the situation, she was able to have a really constructive conversation with him instead of—

Diane Dempster: Fighting.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Letting things devolve and blow up. So, here’s the question: what are the current priorities? Whose priorities matter more? Who has the power to decide? Whose agenda is it? And I might ask, what’s the remedy? How do you go about addressing that?

Diane Dempster: I think the way I want to address this is by saying one of the things you and I model really well is identifying that different people have different perspectives and priorities, and then talking about how we’re going to resolve that, right? It’s basically like, you want this, I want that—let’s recognize that those are two different things. How do we want to move forward?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Without making either of us wrong for it?

Diane Dempster: Exactly. Right. It’s about acknowledging, "This is the way you see it, and this is the way I see it." So how are we going to decide? Are we going to try to find a way where we both get what we want, which is what we always encourage parents to do? Or do we say, "This time, you pick the movie, and next time, I’ll pick the movie," which might be another solution.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right.

Diane Dempster: Another way to handle it? Or if there’s a situation where safety is involved, sometimes as parents, we might say, "I’m going to have to go with my decision on this one." We might have to pull out the "I’m the mom" card. 

We don’t want to do that all the time, but it’s about making a conscious decision. It’s a conscious decision-making process, right? It’s about acknowledging that we see things differently, and then asking, “How are we going to navigate this conflict, knowing that we have different perspectives?” What would you add?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and what comes up as I hear you say that is, what are we always talking about? We’re always talking about being in the process, right? This is about a process-oriented approach to problem-solving, rather than a solution-oriented approach. 

When we consider the steps along the way and understand whose priorities are involved and what’s important to them, we’re going to reach different results. I know I keep bringing up this example, but it was such a perfect one today.

Part of the reason they were able to have this really successful conversation, to plan it out, and to have it without stress was because she understood that his motivation to go out with his friends that night was a legitimate motivation for him.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right. And what was in it for him wasn’t to sit down with my parents and have a constructive conversation. He wanted to get through the situation respectfully so he could reach what he was truly motivated by. So, getting clear on everyone’s priorities and values is really important.

Diane Dempster: Well, and what I’m flashing back to is one of the things we teach in the young adults class: as adults, it’s often much easier for us to see our kids’ perspective than it is for our kids to see ours. Just acknowledging that is important. 

We have to remember that, as adults, it might be hard to say, “Well, Johnny, this is how I see it.” As your parent, with all my life experience, I expect you to listen. But our kids aren’t going to see it that way. We need to remember what it was like to be 18, or 14, or 22, or whatever age it is.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Or 10.

Diane Dempster: We’ve been through that, and we can understand their perspective more easily. There may be additional processing needed to help your child gently see your perspective and, potentially, what's in it for them, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, it's often about what's in it for them. I was listening to him and thinking, okay, what we’re really saying is that we have to be the grown-ups here.

Diane Dempster: Yes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s it. We have to understand...

Diane Dempster: That it's...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Wait, let me just finish my thought, right?

Diane Dempster: Yep.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: To do that, we have to respect that our priorities are our priorities, but also recognize that theirs may be different. 

This ties into another point about respect and recognition: we have to respect that they are separate, autonomous, independent beings, separate from us. We may not always agree, but their perspective is real, and it’s theirs.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Sorry, wait, what were we going to say?

Diane Dempster: No, I was just thinking—it’s not just with our kids. We have to be the grown-ups sometimes in arguments with our co-parents, our partners, or our...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Siblings.

Diane Dempster: Lovers?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Parents.

Diane Dempster: Anybody, right? It’s just— I had a mom the other day say, “Why do I always have to be the grown-up?” My rule is that if you recognize there’s an opportunity for someone to be the grown-up…

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It’s probably your job.

Diane Dempster: Probably your job.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah. Fair enough.

Diane Dempster: Sad, but true.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, we’ll hold onto that, but let’s move on.

Diane Dempster: The second one is about trust and closeness, which is the idea that you have my back on this. How do we remedy it when someone feels like, "You don’t get it, you don’t understand my perspective, you’re the enemy," or whatever?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, I think that ultimately, it’s about building trust, right? It’s about building trust all the time, not just in moments of conflict—especially not in those moments. It’s about taking the time in our relationships with our kids to build trust in other ways: acknowledging them, making sure they feel seen. Right? 

Not just catching them being good—although there’s a lot of value in that—but acknowledging who they are, and again, their individuality. Showing enough interest in who they are and respect for that helps them begin to develop trust in us.

What often happens with parents, especially when they come to us, I think, Diane, is that by the time they get to this point, for many, there’s been distrust or mistrust cultivated on both sides. 

The kids have kind of stopped trusting the parents, who are in "director mode," and the parents have stopped trusting the kids because they feel like they have to stay in "director mode." Go ahead.

Diane Dempster: Well, and they don’t trust themselves, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yes.

Diane Dempster: There’s this issue, especially with neurodiverse kids or adults, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And by that, you mean both the parents and the kids?

Diane Dempster: Yes, exactly. So, I don’t trust myself.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right.

Diane Dempster: I don’t trust myself to stand up for myself as a mom, or I don’t trust myself to do this thing that I’m supposed to do. There’s all this breakdown in trust that happens in the dynamic, right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? Or my kid feels like they’re not sure, but they’re going to come out fighting, right? They’re going to battle, even if they’re not sure, but if they feel backed into a corner. So, working on relationships— you’ve heard us say this many times: if you don’t know where to start, lean into the relationship and lean into self-care. When you lean into relationships, you build trust.

Diane Dempster: Well, and what I always think about— I don’t know if I’ve talked about this on the podcast before— but I think about trust like a marble jar. 

Every interaction we have with somebody either takes a marble out, puts a new marble in, or leaves the marbles alone, right? So, we want to look for more moments that add marbles or leave the marbles alone, rather than those moments that take the marbles out. 

That takes us back to, I think, that first bullet we were talking about a few minutes ago. If you’re the kind of parent who’s constantly saying, "Well, I’m the mom, I get to decide," "Well, I’m the mom, I get to decide," "Well, I’m the mom, I get to decide," then, in the moment where you really need to be the mom and decide, it’s going to be harder.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Because you’re going to have your trust.

Diane Dempster: It’s just that your kid doesn’t have the trust that you’re sometimes going to see their way in it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and as I’m hearing you talk about the marble jar, I just want to add—sometimes we need to pour in some sand to fill in the spaces.

Diane Dempster: Right?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And that’s where building trust comes in. It sets the stage and gives a foundation for everything else.

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That was just the visual that came to me.

Diane Dempster: So, you want to think of building trust as something that happens in every moment. It’s not something that’s here one day and gone the next. It’s a constant, iterative process of building and rebuilding trust.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And if you have a kid where you feel like they lie a lot or there are a lot of reasons why you can’t trust them—there are probably very legitimate reasons why you don’t feel like you can trust them—understand that what Diane just said is essential. 

The goal is to start building trust on both sides, to rebuild the trust. Because on some level, when they were little, it was there. Those neurons are still there somewhere, right? And what we want to do is rebuild trust with our kids. 

So, if we catch our kids in trouble for something significant, I remember when my kids got in trouble for something serious, that conversation wasn’t, "I can’t trust you anymore." It was, "Well, it looks like we’ve got some work to do to build back our trust." That’s a very big distinction.

Diane Dempster: And just that language is so powerful.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: Well, saying "It looks like we’ve got an opportunity here to build back some trust" is very different from saying "I could never trust you" or "I can’t trust you." Yeah, I love that. Okay, so related but slightly different is respect and recognition. 

Do you value me as a person? My perspective? My life experience? You were talking about this a little earlier— it’s about acknowledging that everybody’s perspective is their perspective.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And their perspective is their reality, really.

Diane Dempster: I was having a conversation with somebody the other day about truth—capital T Truth versus truth with a little t, right? And it’s this idea that there are so few things in this world that are actually true with a capital T, because we all see the world so differently, with such different life experiences, values, and everything else. 

The idea that there are some universal human truths is a hard thing to really contemplate. I mean, I’m sure there are, but if we sat and debated that, I’m not suggesting we do. 

The point here is that everybody is going to see the world through their own lenses, and the minute we label them right, wrong, good, or bad, we’re losing the opportunity to show respect and recognize their worldview.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, and I think there’s also—yes, and adding to that—there’s this notion that we feel like our kids have to earn our respect and that we have to earn their respect. I think we kind of turn that on its head a little bit and start with the notion that everybody is deserving of respect.

Diane Dempster: Everybody, yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Everybody is deserving of respect, and we teach a tool in Sanity Schools called AVI—Assume Best Intentions, right? 

Let’s start with the assumption, without judgment, that our kids are deserving of and worthy of respect—that their perspective and their voice matter. How do we honor and respect that, while still getting done whatever it is we’re trying to get done or move through? 

But we do it from a place where it’s not that they have to earn our respect in order for us to respect them, but that we start by respecting them, unless somehow they’ve lost our trust, right?

Diane Dempster: Well, I think the thing is...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But it’s different from respect, right?

Diane Dempster: And I think that’s the thing—we often equate needing to agree with each other...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: It’s this idea that I have to agree with you in order to respect you. We have the same conversation around compassion— it’s like, I have to agree with what you’re saying in order to have compassion for it. No, that’s not it. 

The whole point is, you have a right to your worldview, you have a right to your perspective, and I respect that you have that right. 

I may not like it, but I bet if I show that I may not agree with it, that’s where you can work through the conflict. But if you start with, "Wow, this is your worldview, it makes sense for you to see it this way, and I respect that," instead of me trying to make you wrong because you’re not sharing my worldview, that goes a long way in managing this.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: And that's so key, right? We all know that old term "agree to disagree." Well, let’s look at it from a different angle. We can respect that we don’t agree on something and trust that the truth is somewhere in the middle, because it usually is. 

I can respect that just because we see things differently or have different opinions or ideas doesn’t make either of us wrong. The thing is, we often try to make someone else wrong in order to make ourselves right. 

What you’re saying is that we can both be right from our perspectives, and use that respect as a way to move forward, to find a common path where we can work it out, negotiate, or whatever. But if we’re so busy making the other person wrong, we’re not really stepping back to look at the bigger picture of the issue.

Diane Dempster: Well, and bonus points if you notice yourself in that "you're wrong, I'm right" mode, or in the blame game, or whatever it is. That’s a great indication that maybe one of you is dysregulated and needs to take some space, take a few deep breaths, or go listen to our podcast about triggers.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Excellent point. Alright, we’ve got one more to talk about: unrealistic expectations and lagging skills. This is really common in the world of neurodiversity and with our complex kids. A lot of our kids are three to five years behind their same-age peers in some aspects of their development. But not all, which is part of what makes it a little complicated.

Diane Dempster: And frustrating, sometimes.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: I refer you to the podcast on the fun three-to-five-year lag. I’m sure we have one. So how do we deal with that?

Diane Dempster: Well, I think there are a couple of pieces to this. One is making sure you’re setting realistic expectations and navigating that properly. So if you notice, "Well, my kid’s not doing this even though I’m asking them to," or "My co-parent isn’t doing this even though I’m asking them to," pull from the last five minutes and assume best intention. 

Maybe it’s not a realistic expectation for my partner to remember X, Y, and Z without some reminder system. Or maybe it’s not a realistic expectation for my kid to be able to get all their homework done if nobody's at home with them after school. 

Whatever the expectation is, the first thing is to say, “Okay, this is not a realistic expectation.” And what’s the rule of thumb I always use? If they don’t do it independently 80% of the time, it’s probably not a realistic expectation. 

So, a couple of things: one is to go back and catch them up. You’re talking about lagging skills, Lane, and with kids being three to five years behind their peers, they may need us to help them develop the skills that are lagging.

 A lot of times, particularly with school-based skills, like when kids in third grade are learning to use a planner, our kids may not be ready to start using a planner. So now, when they’re in fifth, sixth, or seventh grade, it’s like, "Okay..."

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Great content.

Diane Dempster: Alright, yeah—no judgment on whatever year it happens to be when they’re ready to start using a planner. 

Someone needs to help them figure out how to fit it into their life. Or maybe they don’t use a planner at all. We always talk about not making it about the solution, but if they’re ready to come up with a system to help them remember their assignments, they may need you not just to assume they can do it, but to help them create a process or structure to manage it.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Exactly. And sometimes it’s about that. Another example that came to me today was from a parent I was talking to. She was reflecting on something she heard us say in Sanity School about our kids being three to five years behind. 

She realized that maybe her kid wasn’t coming in late because he didn’t care about the curfew, but perhaps he was struggling with time blindness and time management. What if we problem-solve around that? Or accept that he’s not doing it out of defiance, but because it’s a neurological challenge?

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: It changes how we're going to respond and manage the situation. It changes how we deal with whatever the problem is or the challenges we’re trying to address.

Diane Dempster: Well, and underneath all of this is that constant drive for curiosity. We need to ask, "What are all the things that might be going on underneath this?" I mean, isn’t that one of the quintessential questions we teach in Sanity School? We always emphasize it—don’t start by assuming, "He’s late.

He doesn’t care about his curfew." Have the conversation, figure it out, and assume best intention. All of these things tie in together. The other thing that comes up...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Okay, we have one more thing before we wrap this up. Is this important?

Diane Dempster: Yeah, no. The other thing that comes up around unrealistic expectations is perfectionism. Sometimes it's really hard to let go of that—we like to do things a certain way, we like to do things our way. And either...

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Every perfectionist, or... I'm not sure what you mean by that?

Diane Dempster: Yeah.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: But, you should say...

Diane Dempster: The thing I always joke about is the dishwasher, right? It's just sort of like everybody has their own perfect way of how to organize the dishwasher. My partner and I constantly—he reorganizes the inside of the dishwasher and then I reorganize it instead of him. It’s like this constant back and forth, whoever happens to be the last one before it gets run. 

Hopefully, they're the one who unloads it, and doesn’t say, "Ah, here we go again," as we organize it differently. But it's that sort of thing—we like things the way we like them. And that's fine when it doesn't impede anyone else’s need, desire, or whatever else to have things their way.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Well, it’s so similar to perfectionism. So, there is a letting go of perfectionism piece, right? But I also want to go back to the beginning of this whole thing, which is there’s also a letting go of control. Because part of what I noticed, too, when I was with my son’s graduation, was traveling with young adults and grandparents—three generations. 

And everybody has their own way of doing things. So, everyone’s trying to direct, not because they’re trying to control necessarily, but because they’ve all accomplished getting their way through the world the way they know how.

Diane Dempster: Right.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Right? And so, if we’re constantly up against it, instead of saying, “You do it that way, then,” it changes the whole nature of that. If we understand that when our kids are being combative or persistent, it’s sometimes because they see a way of doing something in the world that works for them.

Diane Dempster: Well, and a quote that just kind of pops up, overarching all of this, is there are so many variations of this, but it’s: “Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?”

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah.

Diane Dempster: And it’s this sort of thing—when you're in coping mode, overwhelmed, and in control mode, it’s hard to do that. But if you're doing it just because “I've always done this this way,” then let it go. Find a way to let it go, or find a way to say, “We’ll do it my way this time, and your way next time.” 

This is the thing we’re navigating in conflict: you like it your way, I like it mine, and I don’t really want to handle that. It’s not about winning or losing; it’s about navigating the conflict.

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: Yeah, beautiful. This was an awesome conversation. I love this. But we’ve got to wrap it up—I’ve taken lots of notes. 

We’ll have lots of links in the show notes, so if any of the topics we talked about today are useful reference points for you, we’ll have links to either other podcast episodes or articles in the show notes today.

Diane Dempster: So take a minute before we close off. What do you want us to take away from our conversation today? What stood out for you that you want to remember over the next few days? Take it with you into some conflict at home or turn it into some actions.

Take notes for yourself—either mentally or on paper—and use them from there. How do you want to wrap this up?

Elaine Taylor-Klaus: That’s it, y’all. Take this insight and think about what you want to do with it in the coming week. Trust that if you're here, if you're listening, you're doing what your kids need: engaging in a conscious conversation with yourself about how to be the parent or the professional you want to be with complex kids. So, kudos to you, and we’ll see you on the next one.

Diane Dempster: Thank you, everybody.